Great Article(s) on the Historical Role of the Flute in Scottish Music

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rykirk
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Tell us something.: I am a piper and guitarist who has taken up the whistle and flute. Mostly interested in and playing Scottish baroque and trad.

Great Article(s) on the Historical Role of the Flute in Scottish Music

Post by rykirk »

This article has been shared in another thread, but I wanted to get it a bit more visibility. I think the flute is vastly underrepresented in Scottish music today. So much emphasis is on the 19th Century and later 'Irish' flute or whistle. But of course the flute was a popular instrument well before that, and like most instruments was popular in England and Scotland before making its way across to Ireland. There is also a large body of great Scottish music available for the flute in both simple traditional settings in dance and tune collections from the 18th Century as well as original compositions in a light Baroque style.

I think looking at these roots and the stylistic conventions of the 18th and early 19th Century and the settings of traditional tunes in some of these collections opens up a lot of possibilities and options for modern trad players. Here is the quick run down article:

https://musicologynow.org/dissertation- ... beth-ford/

Another article on the relationship between piping and flute playing:
http://music.academicblogs.co.uk/pipers ... -scotland/

And here are some more in depth theses that are worth a read if you have a bit more time:

https://theses.gla.ac.uk/7351/
https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/handle/1807/69009
rykirk
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Re: Great Article(s) on the Historical Role of the Flute in Scottish Music

Post by rykirk »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7KNX3nennU

Chris Norman's performance of the Duke of Athol's from the Daniel Dow collection.
Jeggy
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Re: Great Article(s) on the Historical Role of the Flute in Scottish Music

Post by Jeggy »

rykirk wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:12 am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7KNX3nennU

Chris Norman's performance of the Duke of Athol's from the Daniel Dow collection.
That's a fantastic album by the way. Many, many hours I've spent listening to it.
GreenWood
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Re: Great Article(s) on the Historical Role of the Flute in Scottish Music

Post by GreenWood »

Though I'm not really qualified to speak, I agree with what you are saying, though would not predate one region to another either. There is no slight towards the Irish at all meant anywhere, and it is well recognised that there is historic overlap, or better written a shared history, between Scotland and Ireland. Others will be much more aware and informed on this than myself, and so I won't dwell on that.


What I would like to share is based on using music as the metaphor. I learned The Bush Hornpipe tune, and somehow found it very deep and soulful, even when played as hornpipe, and so decided to look for its origin. That goes back to Sean Van Vocht/The Poor Old Woman at least, and I'm assuming the tune is at least contemporary with the lyrics, as used in the video below...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shan_Van_Vocht

http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/ballads/PGa027.html


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1PBiig46hrA


The song would have been written in 1797 according to Sparling, though I haven't found early print of the tune... but before that Logan Water, click annotations...


https://tunearch.org/wiki/Annotation:Logan_Water

...is suggested as source, itself notioned as originating from Boyne Water by other .... the Logan Water tune is in earlier broadside ballads before Sean Van Vocht/The Poor Old Woman . I hear Bush Hornpipe in...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax2ore1XCS0

... but that is maybe just me . Bush Hornpipe could be the river Bush in Ireland, or Josie McDermott I think suggested a lone Rowan (not certain on that) .

Either or whatever way, music is the metaphor and so arguing over ownership seems pointless... these are old or ancient tunes that run deep in our senses and that find their way to whatever contemporary setting suits them.

The Duke of Athol's March is very special, both the tune and how it is played. I looked up again the Duke of Athol as I remember some already, and was wondering about the symbol of Man in the coat of arms, and landed at

https://www.imuseum.im/the-atholl-paper ... evestment/

the lead up to that is in other links in the page.


Another similarity of tunes is Na Connerys and The Trip O'er the Mountain

Na Connerys

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=UWIqGAXX_cg


Trip Over the Mountain

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=n26yY6wfXlY

And both are from early 19th century as far as I know.

The story behind Na Connerys

https://archive.org/details/connerysmaking00kiel


And lyrics talk

https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid= ... adid=57396

https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=95120



Seamus Ennis learned the Trip Over the Mountain tune from his grandfather apparently, and Na Connerys song will be composed along with the events.

I'm wondering if Trip Over the Mountain poem has anything to do with the tune by that name though, because its tune is listed as A Bottle (which I could not find, maybe A Bottle and a Friend by Burns... but though a song, that has no early tune attributed to it and as a more modern song I could not compare).

https://johnmouldenonirishsongs.wordpre ... 1993-1997/

So it all gets a bit muddled, with McWilliams possibly Scots related. However what is interesting is then finding earlier reference to Na Connerys tune, which is suggested as of
Éamonn an Chnoic (Ned of the Hill)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89amonn_an_Chnoic

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R-uQAhrO4nM

https://sounds.bl.uk/World-and-traditio ... 3XX-0700V0

Which it is said Bean Dubh An Ghleanna , Dark Maiden of the Valley is related to

http://pipers.ie/source/media/?searchTe ... iaId=17657

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=60GRWJlgQqI



An English song also took the title

https://www.cranfordpub.com/langan/Ned_Hills.htm

And I should imagine that just possibly there might have been occasional effort to replace song versions so as to delete others.


The tunes though are untouchable, and I am not actually assuming the various tunes are the same. To me it is like waterfalls with pools, and each pool has more waterfalls, and the various tunes are waterfalls that might come from a similar pool, and various might feed another pool with different sounds that give more tunes and so on. The original tunes would be somewhere up in the mists, too quiet for us to hear, so deafened by the silence that we could not say where they came from.

It is hard to imagine, given to how far back in time these tunes go, that in both Scotland and Ireland they were not played on, or also played on, flute from very early on.
rykirk
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Re: Great Article(s) on the Historical Role of the Flute in Scottish Music

Post by rykirk »

Yes, its very interesting to trace the historical origins of tunes and tunearch especially I find a very good resource for that. Wetootwaags podcast specializes in this sort of historical tune tracing, you may enjoy his shows!
GreenWood
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Re: Great Article(s) on the Historical Role of the Flute in Scottish Music

Post by GreenWood »

rykirk wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:17 am Yes, its very interesting to trace the historical origins of tunes and tunearch especially I find a very good resource for that. Wetootwaags podcast specializes in this sort of historical tune tracing, you may enjoy his shows!
Thanks Rykirk, I will look that up. I know tune history can easily lead anyone into deep water of one kind or another, but I think as long as it is kept as sort of supplementary or complementary to the music itself and not overriding of it, then it provides a lot to wonder at.
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