French flute restoration

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Lyscanthrope
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French flute restoration

Post by Lyscanthrope »

Hello,

Playing irish flute for some time now (a François baubet delrin that I fancy a lot), I wanted to delve a bit on some more keys ...hence I wanted to keys !
The silver one is tempting but I've tried it and well ....i'm not there yet (too much clacking ?).

Browsing on the french version of craiglist (leboncoin), I saw an old no name flute with 5 keys.
The state was really ugly : lot of gummy stuff on the wood, a crack in the barrel and probably some stuff to do on the key.

The price tag was not so much so ...I told my self : let's try it !

Taking some time here to browse through a lot of post I found a lot of information !

After some cleaning (saliva & oiling) ...then some more ...then some more I manage to see the wood again !
It is pretty nice looking.

I took of the keys (post-mounted), the screw were in dire condition but I managed to get the out with some penetration oil (putting masking tape around) and cleaned the keys.
Things are going not so bad !

Once all the wood is cleaned, I used steel wool, to have a deeper cleaning.
Here it eventually notice the maker logo "laubé" a french maker (around XIX century I think)

I then removed the pads and tried the silicone pads method (see here viewtopic.php?t=20500&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0). Right now it is curing withe keys back in place :

Then I took a look at the crack. It went from one side to the other. I decided to try to fill it with several layer of superglue (with careful taping around the edge to limit the glue on the wood). Some steel wool after, it cleans quite well.

Here is the picture of the flute right now :
Image
https://ibb.co/N3qjmN3

But there is an issue : the slide is loose on the barrel !
I mean : the inner slide and the outer slide are stick together but the outer is not glued to the wood of the barrel.
Another way to state it : the barrel rotated freely without making the slide mode. But the barrel cannot be taken out.

In itself it isn't so dramatic, I think that I could play it like that ....but It is bothering me !
I searched though all the forum and couldn't find the same situation. I've tried penetrating oil but I coudln't do anything (in fact I have no twisting power ....just pulling and the slide may be stick since ages !).

I have a strong penetrating oil on my way to test it but ....I feel a bit helpless !

I've looked at the Mcgee : the immovable slide page (http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/immovable_slide.htm) for the standard method :
"1 firm pulling combined with a twisting action
2 a mandrel, turned to fit into the lower end of the inner slide is tapped repeatedly while holding the barrel section in hand
3 a knife is wedged into the gap between the head and barrel, working around the circumference
4 a heated mandrel is inserted into the lower end of the slide via the socket. The heat breaks the grip of the condensate and the slide comes apart easily by twisting."

1 and 3 are not applicable as I can't twist and there i no gap (I don't even know if the righ is with the head) or with the barrel.

I do not understand the number 2 : shall the dowel rest on the cork ?
For the number 4 ... I have nothing that would allow me to do that in my flat ;)


If anyone have some opinion on this issue I would be glad :
I guess that it is the shellac between the barrel & the outer slide that got loose but that doesn't help me to make it move ;)

The second issue (but much less) is that I would like to check the stopper condition, it seems pretty stuck and most of all I can't remove the crown (no grip at all).
If I got no other choice I'll probably try to puch every thing out with a right sized dowel (that I don't have). Ony opinion on this crown :
https://ibb.co/svhGSYm


Best regards

PS : I can put more photo if needed !
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kkrell
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Re: French flute restoration

Post by kkrell »

#2 is to tap (from the barrel side) against the inner slide (which comes from the head), to push it out of the barrel.

For #1, oil, or a penetrating oil & rubber gloves to assist grip, and pull slowly. Often, the head & barrel will often separate from each other. Then clean the slides.

You'll still have to address properly positioning and shellac or glue the head liner back into place.

I have a Laube, but it's a wooden Boehm model. They seem to be well-made.
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an seanduine
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Re: French flute restoration

Post by an seanduine »

Carefully examine the barrel tube (outside part of the slide) to see if it is flared out to hold this tube in place. This was one thing the French makers sometimes used, flaring at both ends, to ´fix´ the tube in the barrel. This is a ´one way´ proposition. If this is the case, seek out Jem Hammond for advice and a possible pictorial guide on how to proceed.

Bob
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kkrell
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Re: French flute restoration

Post by kkrell »

an seanduine wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:14 am Carefully examine the barrel tube (outside part of the slide) to see if it is flared out to hold this tube in place. This was one thing the French makers sometimes used, flaring at both ends, to ´fix´ the tube in the barrel. This is a ´one way´ proposition. If this is the case, seek out Jem Hammond for advice and a possible pictorial guide on how to proceed.

Bob
The OP is NOT trying to remove the metal tube from the barrel (such as may be necessary when fixing a split barrel). In this instance, the slide tubing from the *headjoint* is not moving freely within the barrel's metal receiver.
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Lyscanthrope
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Re: French flute restoration

Post by Lyscanthrope »

I can testiofy that the silcon pads solution is easy or work well for now !

Just to clarify :
- the barrel rotated freely around the outerslide.
- The outer slide is seized with the inner slide.
- The inner slide is correctly positionned inside the head

I played the flute, it is a really "sweet" flute (or is it my playing) and the F# is rather flat (unlike my other flute).

The slide pushed all the way (because it is seized ;)) still makes my playing flat when I compare to a 440hz reference !

I am usually a "flat player" (....can't manage to get in the sharp territory !) but it is even more prononced on this one (or is it a 430Hz ?) ! So there is no hurry to unseized the slide;)

But I guess that I'll try to move the corck a bit forward... I tried taping on it with a long dowel but it seems very stuck... Any tips to make it looser?
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Re: French flute restoration

Post by Flutern »

Lyscanthrope wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:13 pmI played the flute, it is a really "sweet" flute (or is it my playing) and the F# is rather flat (unlike my other flute).
On this kind of flute, F# is intended to be vented with the Fnat key (and probably with the Eb key as well).
The slide pushed all the way (because it is seized ;)) still makes my playing flat when I compare to a 440hz reference !
It's likely that the intended pitch was A=435 or thereabout.
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Lyscanthrope
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Tell us something.: I am interrested in Irish music and an aspiring flute player.
I started on a doug tipple then I switched to a baudet ....I love it !

Re: French flute restoration

Post by Lyscanthrope »

The cork moved... Just pushing it out with enough force.

https://ibb.co/c1vY6bv

The cork edge were sticking to the wood so it is a bit damaged (not flat anymore).
I put so Teflon tape to hold it correctly.

I dunno if it is because of that but the low notes (E and D) are very hard to make sound. I have to focus so much on it (while I get them easily on my other flute. It is really a struggle to nail them.
It makes me think at a leak, blowing test (not suction) showed me that the penetrating oil that I injected is going out here :

Image

I suspect that it went in between the barrel and the outer slide then being pushed by the air flowing back between the barrel and the head.

The barrel is still stuck as a devil and it seems that the slide is well attached into the barrel (it seems it is as you told be).

Any idea on a quick test to check whether this leak is the cause of the hard to get low note? (it seems to be a very small leak)
I tried with electrical tape, it seems to improve (psychological effect?). But I will not leave it with a tape... How about cover the gap (very thin) between the head ring and the wood of the barrel with glue? The downside is that it will condemn the slide (but...can't get to unseize it)! I am thinking at using a softglue (the type for lcd screen) that I will tear easily with twisting so if could try to remove the barrel one day I could do it!

The downside is how to remove the lip (both side?) with only hand tools?

In fact, I used Teflon tape wrapped inside the space between the head and the barrel. It seems to work well! I got almost no leakage now. I can depressure the inside of the head and make a plop when releasing. The second half is having a good seal. When joining the head and the first joint, there is a faint leak... But can't find where! At least it is playable now!

Oh and a very stupid question : which finger do you use for the long c key? The index (rh1)?

BTW for future reference, it seems that the flute is 430hz tuned : when warm I play a 430 effortless!
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