Questions regarding renovation?

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rogervj
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Questions regarding renovation?

Post by rogervj »

I just picked up this lovely old 5 key blackwood flute that needs attention. I've attached some photos next to my Copley flute for comparison.
I have some questions regarding renovation of this flute. There are no makers marks on it. Any guess as to the age of this flute? It has a fully lined head with no cracks! You can see from the photos that the tone holes are spaced and sized exactly like my Copley. The embouchure holes are quite different though at 11.5 x 10 on the Copley and 14mm x 12mm on the old flute. The bores are the same at 18.5mm.

This flute speaks easily but with some breathiness. When I remove the keys for cleaning I will check for makers marks. The pads seem to have been replaced and all the keys work as they should. The tenon corking needs replacement. Does anyone have a recommendation for sourcing for this material?

The second octave is flat. I suspect the head cork is out of place (and it is disintegrating). I will need to remove this but the crown is frozen in place. There is no adjusting mechanism that I can see on the crown. Looking down the headpiece at the cork there is no resonator or screw head present. Any advice on how to remove the crown? How about sources for a replacement cork?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hck0zra36r6f ... 7M66a?dl=0
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Re: Questions regarding renovation?

Post by Nanohedron »

Judging by the endcap shape and large embouchure hole, my first guess is that you might have a Pakistani-made flute there. If the head's lined with brass, it very probably is Pakistani. But they're not all bad, though, so you might want to start with the stopper cork and see what positioning can do for you. Hopefully a maker can chime in about the embouchure's implications.
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Re: Questions regarding renovation?

Post by Loren »

Hmmm, looks like a frankenflute of some sort: The headjoint and barrel don’t appear to match the rest of the flute…..
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Re: Questions regarding renovation?

Post by Loren »

Actually, the foot also looks like it doesn’t quite match the body: It appears to be slightly oversize in diameter, like the HJ and barrel but not as bad. Also , the FJ wood looks much more like the HJ and Barrel than the body of the flute. The key block on the foot appears more crude than the other blocks as well.

To be fair, I’m viewing the relatively low res photos on my smallish iPhone screen so I may be mistaken.
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Re: Questions regarding renovation?

Post by Nanohedron »

rogervj wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:59 pm Any advice on how to remove the crown?
When I needed to remove the endcaps on my Pakistani flutes (same endcap design), it wasn't as easy as those with more squared profiles, such as on your Copley; obviously one's fingers have little firm purchase on a shallow dome. But it's doable: just grip at the base, twist, and pull. If that doesn't work, you can take a cleaning rod or other stick, and push out cork and crown together.
rogervg wrote:How about sources for a replacement cork?
A wine cork. They've always worked for me. :thumbsup:

I usually didn't use a whole cork, though; IIRC, I'd go with something in the ballpark of half length or less. On a free cork, the length should be greater than the diameter, for stability's sake.
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Re: Questions regarding renovation?

Post by rogervj »

Interesting comments. You all have very sharp eyes. Now that you mention it, comparing the center keyed section to the foot and head, they do appear to be of a slightly different shade of wood and the diameter on the keyed section is narrower. I guess Frankenflute it is. Judging by the general grime and amount of tarnish I had thought that it was quite old. Perhaps not.
Thanks for the tips.
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Re: Questions regarding renovation?

Post by Loren »

For the Tenon recorking, I’d suggest having a local woodwind repair guy do the job unless you’ve already recorked tenons yourself. It’s a bit of a pain to hunt down and buy the correct thickness of sheet cork, then cut it to exactly the right width with parallel sides and glue it up properly with the right contact cement, which you probably also don’t have……I mean, it’s not rocket science, but for one tenon, I’d pay someone local to do it.

If you want to do it yourself you’ll need sheet cork of the same thickness or SLIGHTLY thicker than what’s on there now. Get the real stuff, not the synthetic cork.

Barge brand contact cement is my recommendation for adhesive.

And you’ll likely need some form of solvent like acetone.

Should be how-to video instructions on YT.
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Re: Questions regarding renovation?

Post by an seanduine »

It appears to me that what you have is, or at least started out its life as, a ´Glen Luce 5-key Flute´ as shown here:https://hobgoblin.com/glenluce-5-key-ir ... wood-flute

Please note the original price and the assessment: ´These have setup issues, need tidy holes, sort out keywork and lots of TLC.

I´m not sure where in its life cycle it is, nor how much TLC and ´sorting out´ has already gone into this flute. :puppyeyes:

It could be my eyes, or the picture, but the embouchure appears sloppily cut. . .and because of its size will play sharper than if the hole were smaller, say, if you elect, purely as a ´project´, to bush the embouchure.

Good Luck.

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Re: Questions regarding renovation?

Post by busterbill »

The color variations can be explained if it is a manufactured flute like a Glen Luce. The pieces may or may not be carefully matched to begin with.
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Re: Questions regarding renovation?

Post by jemtheflute »

Definitely of Pakistani origin and not a Frankenflute, IMO. It is typical of those (keyless and keyed versions) that the body outer diameter doesn't match the ODs of barrel and foot at the joints. The hugely oversized and badly cut embouchure hole is also typical and is effectively unplayable. I would suggest not investing any time and effort in the flute unless you intend to get the embouchure bushed and recut. It may then make a usable instrument.

(Somewhere or other - I can't currently find it - there's an old thread or two about one of these which I bought from another member and attempted to fettle up.... :really: :swear: :waah: )

As others have said, just use a dowel which fits into the head liner tube to push the cork up to the crown and knock both out together.
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Re: Questions regarding renovation?

Post by jemtheflute »

Aha, found it: "What in the World?! Who Made This 5-key Flute?! - Chiff and Fipple Forums" viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60759

FWIW I still have it languishing somewhere. In the end I decided it wasn't fit to sell without the embouchure being bushed.
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