Chiff and Fipple Forums

No, I am not the target market . I made a 6-hole flute for myself that can be played fully chromatically by adjusting the hole sizes to make most cross-fingerings work and increasing the lowest hole for a half-holed Eb (wanted to present it in the forum one day but didn't get around to making a really good video). So I have no use for a keyed flute. I love the simplicity of the 6 holes (I still got a boehm flute but no longer play). I have spent quite some money when I was younger on eletric guitar equipment though (would have been more than enough for a good keyed flute). But I no longer play the guitar. Always loved wind instruments since I was a kid. The guitar was just a detour on my musical journey. Should have sticked with the flute back then. But never really was friends with the boehm flute -- too many keys.
I think, in fact, my workbench is a bit too low for my height. I always work in a standing position and I think the bench is not made for that. Should probably put it on some blocks or something.
Considering the working hours -- indeed you're right. 40 hrs a week is way too much .

Sedi wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 2:16 amHonestly, I'm always surprised how cheap even top makers sell their instruments compared to more "standard" classical instruments. A good clarinet can cost 10,000 Euros and more. Compared to that, most "Irish" flute makers (or romantic era flute makers) seem almost too cheap.

It's funny, because in my book a good clarinet is actually cheaper than a good keyed flute. I don't know where you got this price from, but Buffet Crampon's most expensive model runs about 6000€ (catalog price: 6968€), and the RC prestige, which is an excellent professional clarinet, costs about 4000-4500€. If you want it just very good, not excellent, and don't need an Eb key, Buffet's C12 is about 2000-2500€. Selmer's models are in the same price range.

For 10,000 to 11,000€, you get an excellent professional bass clarinet that goes down to low C (Buffet or Selmer).

That's the price a friend of mine paid for one from a local maker here.
https://www.schwenk-und-seggelke.de/mar ... -und-s.php

Sedi wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 2:59 pm That's the price a friend of mine paid for one from a local maker here.
https://www.schwenk-und-seggelke.de/mar ... -und-s.php

Wow And I thought the price of the BC Divine was insane

For me, most of those prices are insane . But I'm cheap. I much prefer trying to get the best sound with the cheapest materials. Don't they always say, with flutes it's about 80 % player, 20 % instrument?
So, one certainly doesn't "need" an expensive flute but it's nice that those options are out there.
I'm note made for a wooden flute anyway, considering my practice routine of multiple short practice sessions over the day.

I'm a hobby bamboo maker. On a good day with the right stalk I can burn out a flute in less than fifteen minutes if I'm lucky. Most of the time there are several hours after, spent watching netflix and making small adjustments to the fingerholes to get everything in tune at the same volume, etc.

Regarding the details, here's a quote from Poor Richard (or Colton?):
"Details are trifles, but trifles make perfection, and perfection is no trifle."

Ha ha, hi Walt. I'm laughing as I'd just been pondering the same thing. I'd brought a keyless flute up to near finished yesterday afternoon. Just needed to polish the bore and then the outsides, buff it up and consign it to the oil. All pretty easy work, so plenty of time for thinking. (Ah, there's yer problem, you might say!)

And I'm thinking I really wonder if I need to go to this level of care - does it make any difference, will the buyer notice, will the listener care, etc, etc. But then I come to the conclusion, I would care, so there's the simple end to it. And then to see your validating quote. Very good!

Terry McGee wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:54 pmAnd I'm thinking I really wonder if I need to go to this level of care - does it make any difference, will the buyer notice, will the listener care, etc, etc. But then I come to the conclusion, I would care, so there's the simple end to it. And then to see your validating quote. Very good!

Speaking as a buyer of musical instruments, we do look at "fit and finish" when we're spending thousands of dollars on a wooden instrument of any type. For me, it started on fretted instruments like custom order acoustic guitars and mandolins, but the flute world isn't that different.

Those of us who aren't completely new to the game, know how much work it takes to get a sharp cut on tone holes and the embouchure hole, and a smooth inner bore. We're paying for precision. Slack off on that, and we'll notice, trust me.

Heh heh, thanks, Conical. I guess all is going well if maker and buyer have expectations that match. Not so good if they don't. We all need to keep in touch!

I'm definitely not a professional maker, and I have much appreciation for the effort and detail they apply. Certainly a professionally made flute will almost always be several notches above more amateur attempts, and in various ways.

All I can share with you is how long a reasonable/acceptable amateur wooden flute takes to make. I started all of this from scratch, making tools, jigs, lathes etc. and so far am just getting near to being able to shape a flute close to wanted dimension each time.

The first two flutes were hand planed and sanded round, that takes time (add on several hours) so I will just measure in terms of the pole lathe I now use.

We live near orchards, so far pomegranate is my favourite wood, it is strong and also used for bows, but I find other kinds also, olive, almond, citrus, and so on.

I work the wood green, the bore is drilled first because with my setup at around 70 cm it finishes within 5mm of target. I use a cordless drill, 5-10cm at a time then recharge and let cool for an hour , then same again. Each go takes about 5 mins all in, so there you have an hours work.

After that I turn the blank on the lathe to close outer diameter, using a steel spindle through bore, set in end bearings, to keep it all straight. That might take anything from 1 to 5 hrs, depending on complexity of shape (e.g. conical, headjoint or not), as well as how close the original blank was. I see other pole lathe turners work much faster than me though, so a professional turner might spend a half hour or two hours . Let's say an hour.

Then the blank is left to dry, it dries fast with bore drilled and bark off, and is less likely to crack without the pith. This is not proper seasoning, but is the next best thing maybe. Here it is hot usually, and the wood has moisture at a low level after a few weeks, basically will not change shape much after that.

Then the bore is redrilled to size and sanded , on straight bore that might be half an hour, on conical up to several hours. So let's average that and just say 3 hrs.

Then the outside is more finely finished, sanding or using lathe if nescessary, that might take 1 hour.

A cork is made from local bark, that takes a half hour.

Then the holes are drilled, which if you are sure of their placement does not take long, and then shaped and adjusted, which does take long to do half properly. So tuning and embouchure take me several hours in total, over the space of several days, or weeks even, as I get used to how the flute wants to be played and therefore what pitches it is really giving for that. If I just start by using a steady blowing style and tuner I get very close to what is possible on any particular flute though, so using that metric I would say 4 hrs total.

Then the flute is finely finished and oiled, which is a further couple of hours work.

That all doesn't include a whole load of added time (sharpening tool, having to restart occasionally etc etc etc).

I think the difference between this and professional makers is that they know exactly the detail they want and work relentlessly towards that, and that makes their work more reliable and consistent, as well as of greater craftsmanship. That is a different level and certainly will be noticeable, and I expect be more time consuming.

If I bought a proper diameter round of wood I could probably make a renaissance flute that was playable and in good enough tune in maybe total three or four hours, that being familiar with the steps. To do this half properly at my level takes the above time though, which adds up to somewhere around 15 to 20 hrs actual dedicated work, which in practice usually means a more gently paced week if you add in all the various delays and extras, if you take time considering each next step and so on.

At least, that is making flutes from my corner of reality.