First time flute buyer

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DrRedstone
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First time flute buyer

Post by DrRedstone »

Hey all,

Just graduated with my terminal degree (finally) and want to celebrate by getting an Irish flute. I have a budget of about $500 (USD, ~410 Euro) located in Missouri, USA. My location unfortunately means no only is there a dearth of players in the area, I also don't have access to any good stores to trial flutes in. As of right now, I'm looking at the M&E Delrin Keyless. I was looking through previous posts and saw a few makers recommended that no longer make flutes, like Casey Burns. I was wondering if M&E still comes highly recommended, or if there is another maker that would be better for me.

Playing background:
18 years playing concert flute/piccolo
10 years on high whistle, 1 on low whistle

I'm also looking at getting the McNeela whistle/flute case, unless there is a better option.
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Re: First time flute buyer

Post by tstermitz »

It sounds like you have considerable flute experience, so you deserve a quality flute that meets your highest expectations. You have time; time to save up a little money, also!

I'd strongly recommend that you try before you buy, even if you have to travel. You really need to talk to other players in person. Listen and try their flutes. We are opening up soon for personal contact.

I guess I would ask whether you want a flute that honks for crowded sessions, or a smaller holed flute that articulates quickly. Can you handle intonation variability like on a baroque flute, or do you want solid intonation without fuss?

There's an M&E keyless flute at the irishflutestore, right now. Also, a Copley. Used flutes are a little thin this month, including in the For Sale pages on this site. That changes all the time, and things will come up.
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Re: First time flute buyer

Post by Loren »

IMO, the Delrin Copley is the best flute you can buy in your price range. Many posters on the forum over the years concur. The Copley is a flute you needn’t ever upgrade from, unless you want keys. The M&E most people don’t end up sticking with long term. They are also less in demand and have a lower resale value than Copley flutes. Also, Dave Copley is in Ohio, not far away, in the unlikely event you ever need service. Nice guy too, and completely professional.

If you can find a Rob Forbes flute used for $100 off or so, that’s another option. Some folks like them but the 2 I tried, while better than M&E flutes I’ve played, didn’t wow me and I stuck with my Copley.

A used Seery polymer flute is also an option as well, but new ones are around $600 plus shipping from Ireland, and you’re not getting more flute for the additional money.

No reason to consider a baroque flute unless you want to play early music.

Also, don’t bother with small holed flutes unless you have a disability or injury - even kids can play fine on all but the largest holes flutes typically used for ITM.


It’s a shame you don’t have the opportunity to try some of these flutes at a session or something before buying, but honestly, who even wants to play a flute that someone else was just blowing in at the moment?

Maybe I should start a flute rental business…..
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Re: First time flute buyer

Post by est »

I purchased an Ellis Ebonite "Essential Flute", which I really like. It is just a long tube, so no tuning slide nor removable parts, but plays very nicely at a=440. https://www.ellisflutes.com/ It sits beside my desk on a flute stand. Today, I was able to grab it while my computer ran some tests that took a few minutes to complete. I was able to work through some tricky little runs on a new tune.

It looks like all of his D flutes are out of stock, but if you sign up on the form, you'll get an email when he has some new ones. Sadly, his site says he isn't taking orders for for Irish flutes, so if you are interested, you'll just have to rely on the notifications to arrive in your email. I got one and bought the ebonite within hours and have been very, very happy with it.
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Re: First time flute buyer

Post by Jayhawk »

I 100% agree with everything Loren said. I will add that Walt Sweet's Shannon flute is a remarkably good flute for an amazing price, too. You don't get a true tuning slide but the tenon works well enough and no rings, which is just an aesthetic thing. I should add as a caveat that I have an 8 key delrin flute by Dave Copley that you can pry out of my cold dead hands on the day, well, that I have cold, dead hands.

http://wdsweetflutes.com/shannon.php

BTW, where are you at in Missouri? I'm in Lawrence, KS, so if you're anywhere near KCMO we might be able to meet up and you could try my Copley just to get a feel for his flutes.

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Re: First time flute buyer

Post by fsharp »

I can wholeheartedly recommend Damian Thompson from Sligo. I had one of his delrin keyless flutes a couple of years ago, and it just sang in my his hands! His embouchure cut and hole placement were perfect for me, I only sold it as I no longer play the flute, but if I ever started to play again, I'd be contacting Damian toot Sweet!
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Re: First time flute buyer

Post by dyersituations »

Great recommendations so far. You can get a great flute for $500. If you want to order in the USA and not have a long wait, Copley is the most common recommendation I see. Last time I talked with them the wait was a handful of weeks. Not sure the wait, but Forbes and Shannon are also supposed to be nice. I know I'm just echoing what others have said, but might as well add the "+1". Regarding M&E, I had one years ago, and it was a good playing flute. Keep in mind it had a rougher finish and was heavier than just about any other flute I've had. But they are cheap.

Other options that I haven't tried but have seen mentioned: Thompson, Millyard, and Di Mauro. Those would all be international purchases. If you can find one used, Burns flutes are nice as well. I have a Burns standard flute, but they cost around $600-700 used (Dusty Strings in Seattle apparently has one currently for $700, and I'm going to be selling one soon for $600).

From there the flutes start to cost around $800+.
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Re: First time flute buyer

Post by fatmac »

M&E flutes are heavier than most other makes, & are fairly loud.

Damian Thompson makes very nice ones too.

Also in my small collection, I have a Tony Dixon 3 piece.

The info offered by the others above, especially about the US made ones, is probably your best options.

Don't get me wrong, I like all of mine, but you would end up paying extra for import duty I expect, which could better be spent on the flute.
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Re: First time flute buyer

Post by busterbill »

Missouri is a pretty big state, but once, before the Covid times St. Louis and Kansas City had pretty active session scenes. I have no idea where things stand now, but you may be able to make some contacts in either city if you are close enough. All of the recommendations above are pretty good. Francois Baubet delrin flutes also spring to mind. His new prices may be a bit higher than you are thinking of, but you never know. If you think you are going to go at the simple system flute in a serious way I'd recommend you think of spending 2 or 3 times the money and get something really good like an Olwell or a Watson. You do need to wait for these though. So buy what you can afford now. If it is something decent you can likely get much of your money out if you sell it used. There are more makers in the 1K+ price range that others can advise you on. I have a LeJuenne which is very nice. Lots of folks love Olwells and I have heard the waiting time is not as long as it once was as both father and son are working together now. And I have head some really good things about other makers, but just don't have any personal experience. Keyless Wilkes and McGees sometimes come up for sale in the 1K range. But i am not really in touch with the market right now.

Lots of us old farts that got into the flute thing in the late 80s early 90s should be aging out of our collections and paring down to one favorite flute, or less. So keep your eyes peeled and ask around in places like this forum and The Irish Flute Store if you have no actual flute playing humans on hand.

And yes, the McNeela flute/whistle case looks pretty good. It seems to be built with the same materials as a pistol case, but with better measurements. If I were you and wanted more advice from owners of those cases (as to durability etc.) I'd run a separate question that would grab those folks attention.
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Re: First time flute buyer

Post by Lozq »

Regarding the McNeela case...I bought one a while ago, it's quite solid and (as you would expect) accommodates a flute nicely. It's pretty chunky though, probably around 10cm deep and there's a lot of dead space inside if you're just storing a single flute in there. Oodles better than using a pistol case and quite protective, but you couldn't really call it compact. I plan on butchering a Boehm flute case just as soon as I find a sufficiently cheap and banged up one on eBay.
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Re: First time flute buyer

Post by Flutern »

Lozq wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:00 am Regarding the McNeela case...I bought one a while ago, it's quite solid and (as you would expect) accommodates a flute nicely. It's pretty chunky though, probably around 10cm deep and there's a lot of dead space inside if you're just storing a single flute in there. Oodles better than using a pistol case and quite protective, but you couldn't really call it compact. I plan on butchering a Boehm flute case just as soon as I find a sufficiently cheap and banged up one on eBay.
I recently bought this Protec PB308 flute case for my 8 key flute, following advice found on this board. I did have to soften the foam a bit with pliers for the flute to fit well, as suggested in the linked thread. The fit for the lower and upper sections of the body is not perfect (especially the lower section) but it's quite good and protects the flute very well. For a keyless flute, the fit would be even better since there are no keys and blocks.

It's a high-quality case and I'm very happy with it. There's also a wide front pocket which is quite convenient to store your cleaning rod, grease, etc. One thing to bear in mind, though: The slot for the headjoint is 23 cm long, which is good for the flute I bought this case for, but I tried with another flute and it didn't fit because the headjoint+barrel are longer than that.

Edit: there's one available on ebay for $30 at the moment.
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Re: First time flute buyer

Post by Steve Bliven »

Lozq wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:00 am Regarding the McNeela case...I bought one a while ago, it's quite solid and (as you would expect) accommodates a flute nicely. It's pretty chunky though, probably around 10cm deep and there's a lot of dead space inside if you're just storing a single flute in there. Oodles better than using a pistol case and quite protective, but you couldn't really call it compact. I plan on butchering a Boehm flute case just as soon as I find a sufficiently cheap and banged up one on eBay.
I have a couple of the McNeela cases and like them. One came with a new flute from Martin Doyle who likes them enough to switch from making his own (although he does unscrew and turn over the metal medallion on the top). If anyone is interested, McNeela has them on sale now at $48 US, down from $64. See https://mcneelamusic.com/wind/flutes/fl ... hard-case/ for more info.

Best wishes.

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Re: First time flute buyer

Post by stiofan »

If you're interested in a used Casey Burns Folk Flute, there's one for sale on the Irish Flute Marketplace FB group for $500.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3454951 ... 228358342/
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Re: First time flute buyer

Post by Lozq »

gwuilleann wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 4:33 pm
I recently bought this Protec PB308 flute case for my 8 key flute, following advice found on this board. I did have to soften the foam a bit with pliers for the flute to fit well, as suggested in the linked thread. The fit for the lower and upper sections of the body is not perfect (especially the lower section) but it's quite good and protects the flute very well. For a keyless flute, the fit would be even better since there are no keys and blocks.

It's a high-quality case and I'm very happy with it. There's also a wide front pocket which is quite convenient to store your cleaning rod, grease, etc. One thing to bear in mind, though: The slot for the headjoint is 23 cm long, which is good for the flute I bought this case for, but I tried with another flute and it didn't fit because the headjoint+barrel are longer than that.

Edit: there's one available on ebay for $30 at the moment.
I was toying with the idea of doing this too, actually. Although my idea was to completely remove the internal foam and replace it with a hand-carved block of my own design. How easy do you think it would be to pull out the internals? Doable, or would it be a bit of a bloodbath?

I suspect that out there in the ether is the perfect simple-system flute case, hidden behind another name. 'Four-piece colonoscope case' or 'Oklahoma-style torque driver case' or something of that ilk. It's just a matter of trawling through the interwebs for long enough :)
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Re: First time flute buyer

Post by Flutern »

Lozq wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 11:12 pmI was toying with the idea of doing this too, actually. Although my idea was to completely remove the internal foam and replace it with a hand-carved block of my own design. How easy do you think it would be to pull out the internals? Doable, or would it be a bit of a bloodbath?
I did something like that once with a cheap hardshell flute case, but I don't think I would want to do that with this particular model. I think the case would lose a lot of its strength, and would probably end up ruined. Here's a picture of my flute in the case.
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