More questions on Embouchure hole designs

The Chiff & Fipple Irish Flute on-line community. Sideblown for your protection.
Post Reply
davidbruce
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:19 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I am looking for a delrin flute, Rudall and Rose design, small holes. Hope someone from this site can help me.
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, Canada

More questions on Embouchure hole designs

Post by davidbruce »

A couple of weeks ago I posted some questions about the various shapes of embouchure holes. Thanks to everyone who replied with well thought out and helpful information as well as some good links.

I read Terry McGee's explanation of the history and development of various embouchure designs. That was quite helpful. I have not been able to find any reviews from people who have experience with Terry's "rounded rectangle" embouchure, or Dave Copley's "squared ellipse." I would be very interested in hearing what people's impressions are.
User avatar
flutefry
Posts: 479
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:58 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Pipes have become my main instrument, but I still play the flute. I have emerged from the "instrument acquisition" phase, and am now down to one full set of pipes (Gordon Galloway), and one flute (Hudson Siccama).
Location: Coastal British Columbia

Re: More questions on Embouchure hole designs

Post by flutefry »

My first flute was a McGee with rounded rectangle embouchure. A few weeks later I got a flute with an elliptical embouchure that I much preferred.

1) for a beginner, I found the rounded rectangle more forgiving since the sweet spot is wider than on the ellipse, but the tone seemed to me less interesting than the baroque flute with a round embouchure that I had been playing previously, and less interesting than the flute with the elliptical embouchure.
2) The cost of "sound" being easy to produce is that it is easy to "stop to early" when trying to find a sound with lots of overtones.
3) When I lucked onto a used Bryan Byrne with an elliptical embouchure for sale near me, I was immediately impressed at the sound that was possible, and depressed at how it would come and go if I didn't get my lip position just right.
4) The difference was enough that I returned the McGee, thanks to his very generous return policy, in order to stick with the Byrne, which I felt had great potential.
5) Perhaps coming from a 9mm circular embouchure with a tiny sweet spot, I felt more confident that I would learn how to find the sweet spot regularly on an elliptical embouchure.
6) My take-home is that if you haven't played much, or don't intend to play a lot, the rounded rectangle is a better "pick up and play" flute.
7) None of this should be interpreted to mean that one can't get a good tone on a rounded rectangle. Produce that focused jet of air close to the blowing edge, and it will sound fine. My keep point is 2) above, namely it is possible to be complacent.

End of day, get a flute, play the heck out of it, and try other peoples' flutes every chance you get. Don't do what I did (!) and spend a decade looking for a magic flute. If I had played the McGee every day, it would have been just fine.

Hugh
I thought I had no talent, but my talent is to persist anyway.
cac
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:47 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Simple system wooden flutes, keyed and keyless. xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: More questions on Embouchure hole designs

Post by cac »

I believe someone in replying to an earlier post of yours recommended David Chu's article on embouchure hole design, and I assume you've read that article, which although it deals mostly with silver flutes is still useful. I've played all four of his types. So here are my own experiences:
(1) I like and unreservedly recommend the elliptical (Chu calls it oval) embouchure. It is the traditional cut for wooden flutes and for my mouth at lest works the best for Irish trad music.
(2) Chu's type two, which he calls 'rounded rectangle', I've played on a Louis Lot silver flute, and I liked it very much (also see (4) below).
(3) His type three, the rectangle with rounded corners, which he describes half of as a capital U on its side, I've played on my 1962 Haynes silver flute and on Rob Forbes' delrin flute. The Haynes has some overcutting and not a huge amount of undercutting. The Forbes has a lot of undercutting (of the far edge) and no overcutting of the sides. The Haynes works well for me, but I couldn't manage the Forbes (although it had a great sound when I could get it), and eventually persuaded Rob to make an elliptical embouchure for me and this works well. I think this was because the embouchure was just too large for my mouth to control (something Theobold Boehm notes long ago).
(4) I've played a Muramatsu silver flute with a winged embouchure. It was otherwise a type 2 embouchure hole and I liked it very much. Perhaps someday some maker will try making a wooden or delrin flute suitable for Irish music with this type of embouchure.

In my experience a very key variable is the size of the embouchure hole. The Louis Lot and Muramatsu flutes both had relatively small embouchure holes, and my Haynes is only slightly larger. Anything larger than 10mm x 12mm would be too large for me to manage.
I know this will only help slightly, but I hope it is of some help. Chet
jim stone
Posts: 17185
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2001 6:00 pm

Re: More questions on Embouchure hole designs

Post by jim stone »

I played for a few days a flute with a rounded rectangle. It was bright and loud. I much prefer the oval embouchure, which is wonderfully expressive. However I think I would have to play the rr embouchure for a few months to know what it truly sounds like.
Post Reply