What in the world is this...

eskin · Post by **eskin** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 9:35 am

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... tegory=359

????

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 9:49 am

I've looked at that thing several times myself, but I can't imagine how it would be played. There seem to be, to my modern eyes, too many holes. I also can't tell if it's end blown or if that's a teeny tiny embouchure hole up near the end.

I'm kind of hoping some benevolent C&F member will buy it so we can get a review of the thing.

Eric

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 10:29 am

I think it's a reed instrument, actually. I'm willing to bet that there's a hole at the top of the small end where you insert an oboe-style reed. I don't know enough about oboes to know whether this is one, but it certainly seems to be in the family of oboes/shawms/bombardes, etc. The pear-shaped bottom is typical of some types of early oboes, and I found one reference online to Douglas & Co. as being oboe makers.

binary_sunset · Post by **binary_sunset** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:43 pm

A (probably) late 19th century oboe by Douglas & Co., before the key system was changed to:

http://www.pamelasmusic.co.uk/images/Fo ... Ob018a.JPG

Probably a nice instrument, though there will be similar tuning discrepancies as exist between most modern instruments and those from the late 19th early 20th centuries.

This is probably a fairly LOUD, very reedy sounding instrument in comparison to a modern orchestral oboe, as the sound has become more refined and mellowed in order to blend more. One would need to find a reed carrier, or have one custom made, and then voice the reeds for the particulars of the instrument.

|binary_sunset|

eskin · Post by **eskin** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:06 pm

So hilarious... I hadn't even considered that the flare was at the bottom of the instrument... I had imagined it like a tuba mouthpiece played as a brass instrument...

Oh man I crack myself up sometimes...

Michael

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 7:33 pm

eskin wrote:So hilarious... I hadn't even considered that the flare was at the bottom of the instrument... I had imagined it like a tuba mouthpiece played as a brass instrument...

Well, figuring out what was the top and what was the bottom puzzled me for a while too, because the key layout is so odd...I'm not really sure how you would hit those keys as the touches don't seem to be very accessible...but I'm a flute player so maybe I'm just not used to this kind of layout. It almost looks like it's intended to be played left-handed (with the right hand on top)!

jdavis · Post by **jdavis** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 8:40 pm

I'm pretty sure this is a musette. Musettes are members of the oboe family that were first used for French country dance music. They were sometimes made with a bulb style bell like an english horn or oboe d'amore. Some of the major oboe makers will still make a musette to order with full modern key work. I think that the old musettes were pitched in G and the modern versions are in F. I've played the oboe for 40 plus years and have never seen a musette in person so they are sort of rare birds.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 9:59 am

Hmmm...I was under the impression that the musette was a form of bellows-driven shuttle pipes, and the precursor to the oboe was the French hautbois (pron. o-bwa), or hautboy in English (pron. I imagine as if it were a male cutie-pie)...Oh, boy.

I vote for hautbois.

N

Thomas-Hastay · Post by **Thomas-Hastay** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 2:25 pm

jdavis is completely correct in this.

The instrument is a "Musette" played with a double reed and is based on the French Musette bagpipe chanter in G. These were popular as school "primers" for the oboe and were once expensive toys of wealthy children in the late 19th century.

Be careful of buying this one, it may be old "sharp pitch"and can't play with other modern instruments.

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 8:15 am

eskin wrote: What in the world is this... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... tegory=359

????

Hi Michael,

I'm more inclined to believe it's a gralla, a small form of an albogue(Spanish instruments). I think Brad is onto it..definitely related to the oboe, the reed sits in the opposite end of the bulb, the conical bore then flares out to the bulb end. It seems a little short for a musette, but that may be a photo illusion.

There's a painting of the albogue instrument/players at:
http://www.cnice.mecd.es/mem2001/musica ... spa%F1ola/

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 11:52 am

OK, I did some searching, and found that the Musette de Cour was a bellows-driven shuttle pipe, and the Musette de Poitou was an oboe-like double reed mouthblown woodwind. As the hautboy appears to have a flared bell as on an oboe, maybe it's a musette...I couldn't find any pix of it other than the bagpipe sort, and all the French and German sites started to become daunting.

The gralla/albogue thing is intriguing. Haven't heard of it; it'll be interesting to see what's out there.

N

Thomas-Hastay · Post by **Thomas-Hastay** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 2:14 pm

There is a very detailed drawing of this instrument in "Musical Instruments of the World" and you are correct, the full name is <i>"Musette de Poitou in G"</i>. This is the French version of <i>"The Italian Piffaro</i>. The Spanish have one too but I can't name it off hand. I have historical measurements for the Musette de Poitou in G if any are interested(?)

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:18 pm

I don't think the musette is the french version of the italian piffero any more than the uilleann pipes are the irish version of the GHB. The piffero has an ENTIRELY different voice as do the spanish instruments. I own and play all of these forms of double-reeded, conicle-bored folk pipes. I don't like to class them as shawms either, as a shawm is a distinct voice also. The musette sold for a low price. I don't know of modern makers of this type of musette, but there may be some. There are several makers of pifferi and the various spanish instruments (grallas, tarotas and dulzainas). I will start a new thread on a spanish maker of flutes, as well as uilleann pipes, spanish pipes and dulzaina (dulcian). I have only posted to the uilleann pipe board prior to this.

Ted

eskin · Post by **eskin** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:49 pm

From a friend:

"Here at last is the long-awaited answer: it's a Petite Hautbois, a French
folk oboe occasionally played with musettes, hurdy-gurdys and the like.
Nowadays people normally just cut down a regular modern oboe reed for it.
The bulb at the bell, incidentally, is not reflected in the bore--it's just
decorative."

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:03 pm

eskin wrote:From a friend:

"Here at last is the long-awaited answer: it's a Petite Hautbois, a French
folk oboe occasionally played with musettes, hurdy-gurdys and the like."

The one thing that doesn't ring true about this is that the instrument in question on eBay was made by an English manufacturer. Was there really enough demand for such instruments to warrant them being made outside of France? I would think most or all of them would have been made in France by French makers, and I find it hard to believe that many French musicians in the 1800s would buy a "French folk oboe" made in England.

Chiff and Fipple Forums

What in the world is this...

What in the world is this...

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