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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:38 am 
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Jayhawk wrote:
I'm doubtful that case would work for a Rudall style keyed flute, but I could be wrong.
Head + foot + padding would have to be under 16 inches. It's wide enough to overlap the foot keys with the head but I don't have to do that for an 8-key Metzler (I forgot 'till now that I had given myself that option when I fitted it out)

(the foot on a Rudall does come off doesn't it?)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:12 am 
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The foot joint does come off but I never take it apart...the 16" length is more than I'd prefer, though.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:40 pm 
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david_h wrote:
Jayhawk wrote:
I'm doubtful that case would work for a Rudall style keyed flute, but I could be wrong.
Head + foot + padding would have to be under 16 inches. It's wide enough to overlap the foot keys with the head but I don't have to do that for an 8-key Metzler (I forgot 'till now that I had given myself that option when I fitted it out)

(the foot on a Rudall does come off doesn't it?)



Most, though not all, cases for rudall style flutes, including those made by the original makers Rudall and Rose are made with the foot and the second body section to remain put together. There is then a separate slot for the head with barrel attached and another for the first part of the body, a total of three slots. One of the earlier posts in this thread had a picture of a Northwind case set up that way.

They have usually been set up with the headjoint near the clasp, then the end and second body section in the next slot, then the upper body in its own slot near the hinge. Sometimes makers have switched the order a bit. But it is a pretty efficient way to package a rudall style flute.

My theory is that the delicate mechanisms of the foot keys on an 8 key flute made taking those last two sections apart more than necessary less than ideal. Moisture in the foot or at that joint hasn't really been a problem in the 30 or more years I started playing this style.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:02 pm 
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Like most Rudall style owners I guess, I leave the C foot and lower body connected in the case. However, I do remove the foot every few months to make sure it's not sticking or swelling, making sure it can be removed. Then a light dab of cork grease to lube the threads if it feels like it's too dried out, and it goes back together until the next inspection.

Getting a bit OT from the case topic here, but it makes me wonder why the C foot and lower body weren't just made in one piece to begin with? Especially with the fairly delicate arrangement of keyed flutes.

If the cases back in the day were made to hold the lower body and C foot assembled together, what's the advantage of having that part of the flute in two pieces? Is it just ease of machining with smaller pieces? Or maybe to make it easier to swab out, by taking the sections apart? I don't have a problem swabbing out the assembled lower section and C foot together with the method I use, with a section of paper towel wrapped around a long bamboo chopstick.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:52 pm 
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I think the main advantage of a separate foot is the ability to twist the foot relative to the RH section to optimise access from R4. Try playing a typical German flute with the integrated RH and Foot, and the low C and C# keys running in parallel (and not interlinked) along the top surface. I can't.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:53 am 
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Good point Terry.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:09 pm 
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Terry McGee wrote:
I think the main advantage of a separate foot is the ability to twist the foot relative to the RH section to optimise access from R4. Try playing a typical German flute with the integrated RH and Foot, and the low C and C# keys running in parallel (and not interlinked) along the top surface. I can't.


I agree. Though once I find the sweet spot for the length of my particular fingers, it just stays there. So seeing this an an adjustment mechanism makes all the sense in the world.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:21 pm 
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Normski wrote:
Have a look at the Vanguard VGP 3202 camera case. You can customise the foam insert and the handle is hinged.

I fit a 6 key in a vanguard VGP 3200 240 x 190 x 100mm. If you have to, you will need to separate all the flute parts, including the barrel.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:47 am 
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That's getting closer, iosu. But interesting to compare the volume of the Vanguard box with the volume of my specially-made wooden flute cases. They are (outside dimensions) 295 x 135 x 52, which works out as 45% of the Vanguard box, or put the other way, the Vanguard box is 2.2 times larger in volume.

Which might be no problem whatsoever for many players. You have to really think through your needs and expectations.

It would be interesting to know the outside dimensions of the Northwind box we saw further up, if you get a chance to measure it and report back, Conical. It looked pretty optimised to the flute inside it. My small cases have to fit 4 quite different separate LH-RH models, I have a different, longer case for the Prattens.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:12 am 
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Terry McGee wrote:
It would be interesting to know the outside dimensions of the Northwind box we saw further up, if you get a chance to measure it and report back, Conical. It looked pretty optimised to the flute inside it. My small cases have to fit 4 quite different separate LH-RH models, I have a different, longer case for the Prattens.

Sure, here 'ya go. The dimensions of that Northwind case in the photo up-thread with the Aebi cocus Rudall-style flute are as follows:

Length is 12 1/16" or 30.6 cm

Width is 5 9/16" or 14.1 cm

Height is 2 1/8" or 5.4 cm


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:20 am 
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That's the perfect sized case, but I want one in plastic for tavel because it's thinner than wood so could be incrementally smaller.

Oh well. Right now, I'm just going to use my beautiful hand made case and accept it will get banged up. It's only a smidge bigger than the northwind case.

Eric


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:05 pm 
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Conical bore wrote:
Sure, here 'ya go. The dimensions of that Northwind case in the photo up-thread with the Aebi cocus Rudall-style flute are as follows:

Length is 12 1/16" or 30.6 cm

Width is 5 9/16" or 14.1 cm

Height is 2 1/8" or 5.4 cm


So 11% bigger than mine, which is not really significant. And half the volume of the Vanguard box, which illustrates that we still haven't found the optimum "off-the-shelf" case. But we now have some numbers to guide us in the search!

I did wonder about trying out a simple folded aluminium case. It could afford to be significantly smaller again, as the wall material could probably be around 1mm thick. Simple snap-on lid like a pencil case. Not attractive perhaps, but strong and very light. Perfect for backpacking and light-weight travelling. I have a sheet-metal folder, so not many excuses...

We had a wonderful chap in the sheet metal workshop at the Research School of Physical Sciences. We had labs and offices up and down the corridors, labelled with their inhabitant's names, honorifics and fields. Not to be outdone, someone put a sign over the doorway to the sheet metal shop, with the chap's name, adding "Doctor of Boxology". He was one of my many gurus in my time there.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:06 pm 
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Terry McGee wrote:
I did wonder about trying out a simple folded aluminium case. It could afford to be significantly smaller again, as the wall material could probably be around 1mm thick. Simple snap-on lid like a pencil case. Not attractive perhaps, but strong and very light. Perfect for backpacking and light-weight travelling. I have a sheet-metal folder, so not many excuses...

A metal case might work, but one of the attractive things about the Northwind case compared to the smaller (non-Pelican) plastic cases, is that I think it would probably pass the "could someone sit on it, and not break the flute?" test. I don't know how thick an aluminum case would have to be, to match it.

I haven't actually tried that, mind you! But that wooden shell feels very strong and resistant to any attempt to deflect it with my hands. It seems to me that someone used to working in wood might be able to make something similar without too much trouble. It's just two pieces of wood, shaped on the exterior and routed for the interior. What makes it look fancy is the leather finish for the exterior. Which I have to admit is attractive, even when it picks up a few scuff marks. The leather also provides the hinge, so there is no extra metal attachments except for the clasp.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:10 pm 
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Jayhawk wrote:
That's the perfect sized case, but I want one in plastic for tavel because it's thinner than wood so could be incrementally smaller.

Oh well. Right now, I'm just going to use my beautiful hand made case and accept it will get banged up. It's only a smidge bigger than the northwind case.

Eric



I got a used Patrick Olwell Nicholson that came in a case with a zippered cover. It is a bit bigger than the Rudall cases I have from Northwind, But the Rudall style flutes fit fine. That zippered case cover was made by a company in Colorado: Altieri. Nothing on their site appears to be the right size, but if they can make something custom. The obviously made something for Olwell. Their cover doesn't add much bulk while providing good protection.

I have sleeves for my Northwind cases made from velveteen wine bags that they used to sell at Pottery Barn. But those would be too tight for your box. You could just make a cover. Mine are just sort of miniature pillow cases, with two layers of a cotton velveteen. They keep things from knocking into the leather.

As for the Northwind cases themselves, they are very sturdy, efficient, light and compact at the same time. They are pricey but will last a lifetime.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:42 am 
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Conical bore wrote:
A metal case might work, but one of the attractive things about the Northwind case compared to the smaller (non-Pelican) plastic cases, is that I think it would probably pass the "could someone sit on it, and not break the flute?" test. I don't know how thick an aluminum case would have to be, to match it.

I would think an aluminium case that size, made from 1mm thick sheet, would easily permit me to stand on it. (Folding metal makes it very strong.) If I get around to making one, I'll try it. Feel free to go first!

I think in all the years, I've only had one case seriously damaged in the mail. But that one was essentially a write off. From the images sent back, I'm guessing a forklift stabbed through the box with one of its loading prongs. Probably my package was at the bottom of one of those big postal bags, and the forklift prong didn't pass under the bag, but attempted to go through. Insurance paid up without a whimper. The flute came off largely unscathed, but I think at least one key got flattened down against the body and had to be replaced. Looking at the cardboard packing box, you'd wonder anything inside could survive.

Quote:
I haven't actually tried that, mind you! But that wooden shell feels very strong and resistant to any attempt to deflect it with my hands. It seems to me that someone used to working in wood might be able to make something similar without too much trouble. It's just two pieces of wood, shaped on the exterior and routed for the interior. What makes it look fancy is the leather finish for the exterior. Which I have to admit is attractive, even when it picks up a few scuff marks. The leather also provides the hinge, so there is no extra metal attachments except for the clasp.

How did it come to be, as a matter of interest? Did you send them the flute, or a drawing, or measurements, or outlines?


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