Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

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Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

Post by Oreo »

The correct spelling is Galeón. But I didn't want to put that in the title.

To give you my limited experience: I have three Copley & Boegli flutes of different sizes, and have two Mark Hoza Kything flutes in D. (These are Perfected Pratten flutes. Mark's flutes made of Australian iron wood and have a lovely tone.) I have owned a Casey Burns folk flute before. But I have had almost no personal contact with others who play the Irish flute. All this means that I am NOT very qualified to write a review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co flute. But since I didn't find another review on this forum, I thought I would give you my take on this flute.

Right at Christmas time, I ordered a Galeon Pratten-style flute from IrishFluteStore.com. I kept it only two days and sent it back, and they very quickly refunded my purchase. Because they were off for a long Christmas holiday, I decided to order a Firth Pond-style flute directly from Andy Xuhang at galeonwhistles.com.

My two-day trial of the Pratten-style just showed me that I didn't like the large in-line holes of the Pratten flute. I am so used to offset holes on everything I listed above. I decided to try the Firth Pond flute because I knew that it had smaller holes, and it was OK with me if it was quieter. When I play in church, I've always have a microphone, so I don't require a flute that honks.

Appearances: The soft bag that came with this flute is the only thing that says 'Galeón'. The flute itself doesn't have any markings. It has lovely brass rings and has the metal tuning slide. I think there must be a sound difference with delrin flutes that have a metal lining in the head joint. The Copley & Boegli flutes play beautifully in tune, but have a bit of a fuzzy tone that I think is partly due to not having the metal lining in the head joint. The Firth Pond flute also has straight in-line holes. I sometimes wish I had asked Andy Xuhang for offset holes, but I've finally adjusted. Finally, this flute is beautifully finished. The whole outside surface has been very finely scored while being turned on CNC machine. In other words, there are delicate rings that you can't even see covering the surface. While the rings are not visible to the naked eye, you can feel them, especially if you scratch you fingernail down the length of the flute. I love the texture, and it makes the flute not so slippery to hold.

The video review at the Irish Flute Store is right: The Galeon flutes play very well in tune. But I was a bit surprised that I was so flat in the last three notes in the upper register. So I wrote to Andy and got this information: The Pratten flutes (I assume the ones he makes) should play best with the end plug set at 19mm to the center of the embouchure hole. But the Firth Pond flute should be set to 23mm. I found, however, that my flute arrived set at almost 26mm. Setting it to 23 really helped.

I'm gonna be keeping this flute. This flute has taught me a lot in the three weeks I've had it. At first I wasn't impressed at all. It seemed to have a tiny, fuzzy sound. I think it was hard for me to adjust to this flute because the embouchure hole is almost rectangular and quite long, as can be seen at galeonwhistles.com. My other flutes have a more oval embouchure hole, and this one is a rectangle with rounded corners. What I discovered is that I have gotten sloppy in my playing posture because my Hoza flutes were so easy and forgiving. But if you slouch and hold the Firth Pond flute crooked, you'll get terrible tone. If I straighten up, I find that there is a sweet spot in positioning the embouchure hole, so that the Galeon flute is capable of playing with a good, strong tone, even in the lowest notes. The tone is more centered and a bit bright compared to my Hoza flutes. To play this flute well, it will need to be the only D flute I play, so that I can find the embouchure sweet spot easily. The low D will not blurt out or honk like on Pratten flutes, but matches the low G and F# well.

The Galeon flutes play the mid C-natural with 0 2 3 | 0 0 0. Playing high D fingering 0 2 3 | 0 0 0 will produce a very unstable note— almost a trill— that alternates between too flat and too sharp. I find that the best high D fingering for me is 0 2 3 | 0 2 3, with my right first finger shading the #1 hole. The high C-natural plays best for me with 0 2 3 | 1 2 0. That note is weak. I am pleased that this flute has a high B-natural that is easy to play with good tone. With the slightly strange fingerings, this flute has a great high register that is easy to control. Overall, the evenness of the tone is great for graceful, lyrical playing. This flute is also nimble for playing Irish style gigs and reels, with or without light accompaniment, but it probably could not assert itself in sessions.

For people used to playing a Pratten flute, there are some various little things that don't work the same. For instance, if you do cuts on the mid E (top space of the staff) using your left ring finger, that won't work on the Galeon Firth Pond flute.

Andy Xuhang was excellent to work with in ordering my flute. The price is the same as the Irish Flute Store. The package Andy sent went quickly by air to New York, but seemed to take forever to go by land by UPS from NY City to Arkansas.

I appreciate the sturdiness of delrin flutes, I make long plane trips to Indonesia twice a year. I won't need to worry about this one cracking in the hold of a plane.
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Re: Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

Post by Oreo »

I just wanted to update my review. I wrote to Andy because the low D of the Firth Pond flute was not strong enough for me. Here is his reply:

The flute was designed weaker than Prattens, you can try to make the plug closer to the embouchure center to make the low D stronger, but this will make a higher 2nd upper notes which need to be corrected by adjusting breathe or blow angle.

I followed that advice and it worked like a charm! The low D is much quicker in response and stronger, while the upper notes were scarcely sharpened. I can live with that to get the low notes.

I am still loving this flute, because it is so easy to control and play in tune.
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Re: Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

Post by WaltP »

Thank you for sharing your experience and providing such detailed information.
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Re: Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

Post by Sebflute »

[Thread revival. - Mod]

There’s a useful fingering for top c it’s 020456. Might be worth a try?
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Re: Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

Post by jefff »

I wanted to say thanks for posting this thread. I just got a Galeon Firth & Pond model flute. I was not able to find many other opinions on it. I'm starting out learning flute and my plan is to spend time with this as well as a Forbes pratten model to see if I get along better with small vs large holes, and rectangle vs elliptical embouchure hole.

I also wanted to add a few observations about the Galeon Firth & Pond that I didn't appreciate until I got it, in case someone else is trying to find information on it.
  • It seems very heavy; I didn't expect weight to be a big deal in a flute but it's taking a lot of getting used to! This might be in part due to the smaller inner bore and regular outer diameter, meaning the delrin is fairly thick. I wonder if the Galeon Pratten is not as heavy? This Galeon F&P is 361 grams on my kitchen scale FWIW, I guess that isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things but it still feels heavy.
  • It looks and feels very well made, everything fits together so perfectly and precisely.
  • The finger holes have very sharp edges on them. Not rough, just very square. I guess this feature makes them snappy, but it also stamps sharp little circles into my fingers! I wonder if it would be any detriment to the instrument if I were to round off the edges of those tone holes a little bit?
  • The cork came installed at 19mm (I bought it from the Irish Flute Store, not sure if they set it there or the maker did so). At 19mm the high notes are very very easy to play in a sweet bouncy mellow sort of way. And, everything in the first two octaves is so easy to get perfectly in tune! However the low D and E are very quiet unless you make a drastic change in embouchure for these two notes. I tried moving the cork out further, which, as was mentioned previously, made the low D and E easier and louder. But then required more effort for the high notes, and the tone on the high notes was harder to control (by high notes I mean in an Irish tunes context, like a and b in the second octave). Surprisingly, it was easy to be in-tune up and down octaves with the cork pretty much anywhere. I moved it back to 19mm.
  • I'll reiterate that good intonation is quite easy to achieve on all notes on this flute. I know I'm not an experienced flooter but I am experienced with fiddle and I feel that I know enough to assert this point. The only one that seemed a bit odd was the C-natural actually came out a little flat at first, surprisingly, but then I adjusted to that and it doesn't seem to be an issue anymore.
  • To play in tune, I have the tuning slide pulled out almost a half of an inch.
  • The square shaped embouchure was different from what I'd otherwise used, but once I adjusted to it, it seemed fine.
  • I have lots of air to spare; it doesn't take much.

I expect that I will like the Forbes better when I get it. I'm a big guy with XL-glove-size hands, and I yearn to get a glorious honk cranning on the low D. Maybe I secretly wish I was a piper.

I'm a fiddle player and only a beginner on the flute, so I can't make a more general informed judgement on it, but I'm glad that I have it. I hope to run into a serious flute player at a session someday to see what it can sound like properly. :)

I started learning on a thin-bodied Carbony which actually had similar hole sizes to this Galeon F&P, but the thin body didn't fit as well in my hands; I lent the Carbony to a friend and I will sell it.
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Re: Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

Post by David Cooper »

jefff wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 12:28 pm The finger holes have very sharp edges on them. Not rough, just very square. I guess this feature makes them snappy, but it also stamps sharp little circles into my fingers! I wonder if it would be any detriment to the instrument if I were to round off the edges of those tone holes a little bit?
It won't affect the tuning, so the only worry would be that you remove too much edge and may damage something - taking any kind of cutting or scraping tool anywhere near a flute always risks it contacting somewhere you didn't intend and leaving a scratch. You have to think hard about every little move as the slightest slip can take a lot of value off the instrument for cosmetic reasons, so it takes time and patience to do even a simple job of this kind.

I don't know the best tool to use, so you must seek multiple opinions from professional flute-makers. Small files and sandpaper will likely scrape a wider area than you intend. I use a small sharp knife with the blade perpendicular to the edge I'm scraping it along so that it doesn't dig in, and I aim to remove only a few microns at a time from the sharp hole edge with a very narrow band of contact so that material is only removed from the tip of the sharp hole edge. Make sure the knife's tip doesn't reach the opposite side of the hole. But don't attempt this until you've heard how people with more experience than me do it as they may know better ways.

Don't keep removing more material without playing the instrument for a week in between tiny modifications so that you con be sure that you haven't removed enough and need to take it a bit further. If you do one hole first and keep progress with that ahead of the others, if you decide you've gone too far with that one you won't have made the same mistake with the rest. The big risk of going too far is that the more comfortable the holes feel when you press your fingers against them, the easier it is for air to leak out, and then you find that you need to press down harder and wipe out all the gains, so you should actually try to retain some sharpness discomfort.
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Re: Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

Post by Moof »

jefff wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 12:28 pm
  • The finger holes have very sharp edges on them. Not rough, just very square. I guess this feature makes them snappy, but it also stamps sharp little circles into my fingers! I wonder if it would be any detriment to the instrument if I were to round off the edges of those tone holes a little bit?
I had the same thing with a mid-G Kerry Busker whistle.

As it didn't cost anything like as much as a flute and I was struggling to play it as it was, I decided to get the Dremel out. I attached a hard felt polisher shaped like the end of a bullet, put jewellers' rouge on it, and stuck the nub into one of the holes. It took a while to make a difference (it's a hard metal composite), but four felt polishers later I had eased the sharpness of the edges. Very little material will have been removed.

I agree with the advice to do nothing on a flute without advice, but polishing rather than scraping might be one option. Delrin apparently polishes up quite nicely, but I don't know how quickly/easily it abrades.
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Re: Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

Post by Terry McGee »

Delrin is a bit weird to work in that it prefers to flow rather than be cut. So you can end up with little feathery wisps at corners, eg around the top and bottom of finger holes, ends of the bores, bottom of sockets etc. I know I spend a lot more time "deburring" Delrin flutes compared to wooden flutes.

I use my old standby, the No 11 scalpel blade for such jobs:

Image

but with the blade held flat to the edge, in "cutting mode", rather than at right angles, as David mentioned in "scraping mode". That does mean you are at some risk of digging in, so you have to be very careful. But if the blade is sharp (new is good!), you can neatly take off the wispy feather. Probably a good idea to practice paring something in plastic that is unimportant first!

The bottom of finger holes is probably more a worry than the top end, as the wisp is the opposite of what we want there. We want a nicely rounded corner to minimise resistance to flow, whereas the wisp presents a clear hurdle. But you can get down there with the No 11. I haven't found a better tool, but then again, I haven't looked!

The No 11 blade fits a No 3 handle, available from the same outlets.

I weighed my Delrin Prattens keyless - 351gms. It does feel a bit heavier than a similar wooden flute.
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Re: Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

Post by jefff »

Terry McGee wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:37 pm Delrin is a bit weird to work in that it prefers to flow rather than be cut. So you can end up with little feathery wisps at corners, eg around the top and bottom of finger holes, ends of the bores, bottom of sockets etc. I know I spend a lot more time "deburring" Delrin flutes compared to wooden flutes.

I use my old standby, the No 11 scalpel blade for such jobs [...] but with the blade held flat to the edge, in "cutting mode", rather than at right angles, as David mentioned in "scraping mode". That does mean you are at some risk of digging in, so you have to be very careful. But if the blade is sharp (new is good!), you can neatly take off the wispy feather.
Thanks, Terry, that's really helpful! I think I will try to very lightly and carefully slice those corners, the tiniest bit possible, with extra strong reading glasses. Honestly, I suspect (hope) I might more easily get a better seal with fewer leaks under my fingers, too...
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Re: Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

Post by Terry McGee »

OK, but don't overdo it. At one point, I got it into my mind that for aerodynamic reasons, I should boldly chamfer the tops of all the finger holes. I then found I had to press much harder to close them! And they were harder to cover precisely, as they seemed larger. Just taking off the sharp edge and certainly any wispy feathering seems to be the way to go here.

And again (he nagged), pay more attention to the bottom of the finger holes than the top. There is no advantage to be gained from sharp edges at this point. And certainly not feather edges!

And come back to us with any observations and advice to others who might well then look more closely at their delrin flutes!
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Re: Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

Post by jefff »

Terry McGee wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 5:49 pm OK, but don't overdo it. At one point, I got it into my mind that for aerodynamic reasons, I should boldly chamfer the tops of all the finger holes. I then found I had to press much harder to close them! And they were harder to cover precisely, as they seemed larger. Just taking off the sharp edge and certainly any wispy feathering seems to be the way to go here.

And again (he nagged), pay more attention to the bottom of the finger holes than the top. There is no advantage to be gained from sharp edges at this point. And certainly not feather edges!

And come back to us with any observations and advice to others who might well then look more closely at their delrin flutes!
Thanks, understood!! I shall apply extreme caution to create imperceptibly small changes! They'll still look like right angles, just slightly less sharp. With magnification I can see what you mean by tiny burrs/feathery bits at the very points which might be the main issue. And, I'll pay attention to the bottom edges as well, as you mentioned. Yeah, I'll report back for better or worse, and now I'm wondering if I can successfully set up some macro photography. :P
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Re: Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

Post by Terry McGee »

I reckon you can and should go a smidge beyond "They'll still look like right angles, just slightly less sharp." Just the tiniest bit bevelled, with the bevel say 0.25mm wide. Just to take the sharp edge off. The air rushing in and out at up to around 1000 times a second will thank you!

But feel free to sneak up on it. Just removing the wisps should be a good improvement. It's easy to take stuff off, but harder to put it back!
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Re: Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

Post by jefff »

Image

Okay, I take full responsibility for this. If I were not inclined to just go ahead and do things that I'm totally unqualified to do, then I never would have started playing the flute in the first place! I just went ahead and beveled them all on the top and bottom.

As you can see, Andy's flute was finished very smooth and perfect-looking, until I messed with it. The (somewhat sloppy) beveled edge in the photo is much smaller than it may appear, because this tone hole is very small. Sorry for the image quality, this was taken by pointing a cell phone camera through a +6 "reading" glasses lens as a make-shift macro lens.

Plusses: Fingering is much smoother feeling in terms of the comfort on my finger tips, especially on the left hand (I use pipers grip on the right hand so I really could have left those holes alone). And, surprisingly, I can now easily half-hole an f natural, which previously felt impossible on this flute! Hello Cook in the Kitchen, and Maids of Mitchelstown!!

Minuses: It looks sloppy on close inspection, though without the use +6 "reading" glasses which allow you to hold an object two inches from your eyeball, you probably wouldn't notice, unless you're a very detail-oriented person. And, I can't in good conscience sell this flute in the future. Oh well. And, lastly, right hand ornaments with the pipers grip I use on that hand sound more bubbly now rather than how sharp and snappy they were with the original shape of the tone holes.

Stuff That Didn't Change: I don't think it sounds any different, otherwise, in tone or volume. All the notes are still in tune, so intonation doesn't seem to have been affected. And, I haven't introduced any problems with air leaks, but these were small tone holes and I have big fingers.

Notes if you're foolish enough to want to do this: I have no idea how you would get the bevels to look more round. This stuff definitely does not carve like wood! After slicing a tiny little angles and cleaning it up as delicately as I possibly could, I figured rounding it off any more would quickly get carried away and I'd find myself with a monstrosity, so I stopped and left it like that. Again, these holes are very small. And, on this Galeon F&P flute, the fancy little lines in the surface that give it the satin-like sheen make it visually obvious every single place you sliced or scratched or gouged the flute, so you should assume that there will be blemishes unless you actually know what you're doing. But, if you know what you're doing, then you've probably already devalued my advice. And, magnification is essential. The +6 "reading" glasses (nobody could possibly read with these!!) let you comfortably work with your eyes right up to the tone hole, I find them a lot easier to work with than a jewelers loupe. (I had them for doing camera repairs). As for the inside edge of the tone hole, you can't really see it, but masking-taping a flashlight down one end of the flute tube and feeling around with a toothpick to find uneven edges gave me the best guess I could come up with of where to slice. I don't know how much this affected the flute's performance, but those edges were very square and sharp, and now they are not, so I'll take Terry's word for it that it might help. My goal was to take off less than a quarter of a millimeter in total - very small.

I'm glad this forum is anonymous, I'm not proud of my accomplishment, but I have to say I am more happy now with how the left hand holes feel, and I do very much like to be able to hit an f-natural once in a while! :) :P
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Re: Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

Post by Geoffrey Ellis »

A fairly safe way to bevel the edge of a finger hole in a non-destructive way is to take some fine steel wool (000 or 0000), wrap it around a thin cylinder and gently rub the edges. When I do this I actually wrap the steel wool around a piece of 1/8" stock that fits in a dremel tool. You can wrap some duct tape in reverse on the 1/8" stock so the steel wool can stick to it. Then you have a buffing tool that is not at all aggressive. You just work your way around the hole taking the sharp edge off. It doesn't take much to make a difference.
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Re: Short review of the Galeon Firth Pond & Co. delrin flute

Post by jefff »

Geoffrey Ellis wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 6:36 pm A fairly safe way to bevel the edge of a finger hole in a non-destructive way is to take some fine steel wool (000 or 0000), wrap it around a thin cylinder and gently rub the edges. When I do this I actually wrap the steel wool around a piece of 1/8" stock that fits in a dremel tool. You can wrap some duct tape in reverse on the 1/8" stock so the steel wool can stick to it. Then you have a buffing tool that is not at all aggressive. You just work your way around the hole taking the sharp edge off. It doesn't take much to make a difference.
Nice thanks! I made a big q-tip out of 0000 steel wool and a shishkabob skewer and twisting it on those bevels by hand for a minute or so smoothed them over perfectly, it looks totally professional now!!! No regrets, this flute is fabulously comfortable and good looking now!!

And i have no way of measuring it but after playing it a bit more, it is louder I think. It has some resonant trumpety blurts available! Though it could easily be that I’m adjusting more to this flute and it was always this strident. But I’m happy to believe that this adventure in beveling has given the flute a bit more juice!
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