Flute making Apprentices

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Damian Thompson
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by Damian Thompson »

I just wanted to say thanks to Paddler for the heads up on the roughing reamers, I've been searching for something similar to these for a few years now.
Properly working reamers are one of the most important parts of flute making and can be a challenge to maintain, anything that makes the job run more smoothly is a bonus.
I just ordered the same two as Paddler, they seem great value for what they are. Looking forward to using them!

Damian
https://www.thompsonflutes.com/
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by GreenWood »

Funnily, I just came across a pdf I had saved a while back, and it lists flutemakers as "Critically Endangered". That's for UK though so I guess anyone outside doesn't have to feel like they are going to be put on a reserve.

Listed between flintknappers and flydressers is

https://heritagecrafts.org.uk/woodwind- ... ng-flutes/

Which looks at some of the difficulties faced by the craft.


Also I just saw an seanduin mentioned case hardening, and I had mentioned it also. It is not that hard in fact. I have a double bellows because of bloomery smelting, but many others use whatever air supply they have (from hairdryer through to vacuum cleaner outlet) to run a forge. A forge in this case is a shallow pit in soil of say 20cm diameter (depending on size of object) , or a small embankment that height made out of soil (not rocks unless you know which, because they explode sometimes), or anything similar shaped. You need maybe five kg of charcoal. The item is placed in a tin (say an old spray canister) packed with crushed charcoal, and the end or ends just hammered closed onto it so any gaps are say under a mm. Then that is placed in hottest part of the forge which tends to be just after where air supply blows through brightest coals (i.e. just move it to where it heats to lightest colour ) and kept like that for half an hour. We did one tool for quarter of an hour at yellow heat and that worked, but the longer the time the greater the depth the carbon sinks in, and so the greater the depth of high carbon steel. Online there are examples for all the above. Gloves and glasses are a good idea, and staring at the hot part of the furnace/work is avoided.

[Edit in... Just remembering the first case hardening I did, and that was the tip of a drop percussion bit for boring a well, and that was done in a large tin packed with charcoal, using a steel bucket with some plaster/sand mixture lining inside the bucket, about 5cm thick. A lid of same was made, with the meter high drill bit sticking out through it (only the tip needed hardening), and the inside of that furnace was heated via a hole in the side of the bucket using a blow torch, for about an hour. I later took that to be reshaped at a metal workshop because all I had was a hacksaw, and the smith there had difficulty cutting it also... he asked me a bit perplexed why the cut metal was a different colour, and I told him I had heated it in charcoal and he nodded. So just to say a torch powered furnace works as well. ]
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Terry McGee
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by Terry McGee »

GreenWood wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:43 pm Funnily, I just came across a pdf I had saved a while back, and it lists flutemakers as "Critically Endangered".
Woah. I was feeling quite good until I read that...
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by GreenWood »

Terry McGee wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:52 pm
GreenWood wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:43 pm Funnily, I just came across a pdf I had saved a while back, and it lists flutemakers as "Critically Endangered".
Woah. I was feeling quite good until I read that...
... and as if there weren't enough fear loosed on everyone already. I think I will remain anonymous to avoid being shortlisted though... at least I think they won't know I make flutes... what if they have inspectors though :-? . You're ok Terry, you are protected by your notoriety, but I'm just the sort they would use as example :( .
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by Tommy »

Before the advent of alloy steels what did they use 100 plus years ago to make a conical bore flute?
''Whistles of Wood'', cpvc and brass. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69086
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by Tommy »

I have a vintage flute with silver rings and tuning slide that appears to have brass with silver plating that extends into the embrocher hole. It has a small space between the wood embrocher hole and metal liner. Thinking of removing it to clean up air flow through the blow hole.

The markings are faint but looks like Reobnt st, London. Also _ _ mason?

All of the other metal has been removed and holes plugged. It plays as a six hole with two of three foot joint holes not plugged.
''Whistles of Wood'', cpvc and brass. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69086
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Terry McGee
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by Terry McGee »

Tommy wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:43 pm Before the advent of alloy steels what did they use 100 plus years ago to make a conical bore flute?
Hi Tommy. Are you thinking in terms of what did they use to make reamers for conical bore flutes?
I'm imagining carbon steel, as made by poking your piece of iron in the coal fired forge, then taking it out and hammering it to the shape you want. Repeatedly! Think sword making, but then imagine curving your sword into a half round shape to make it work as a reamer. And then, no doubt, a lot of grinding, on the good old-fashioned pedal operated sandstone type grinder. This is where it comes in handy to have apprentices!

I imagine blacksmiths would have done this work for the maker, as the maker wouldn't have enough use for forge, anvil, big hammer, etc. But maybe larger makers might have had a blacksmith on the payroll to make and service all the tools?
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Terry McGee
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by Terry McGee »

Tommy wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 6:07 pm I have a vintage flute with silver rings and tuning slide that appears to have brass with silver plating that extends into the embrocher hole. It has a small space between the wood embrocher hole and metal liner. Thinking of removing it to clean up air flow through the blow hole.
Nickel-plated brass was pretty common. Looks more grey than silver?
The markings are faint but looks like Reobnt st, London. Also _ _ mason?
Could that be Regent St, Tommy? That was a really popular address for makers.
Not getting any hits on _ _mason however. Besson? Addison? Hodson? Simpson? These all hung out in Regent St at one time or other. Any other possible interpretations?
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by Tommy »

Terry thank you. Looking at it today with a better magnifying glass I believe it says Regent. Also has the name Simpson, brand name?
And in upper case "PATENT" but I see no numbers. I cleaned the rings to look nice but don't know if silver or chrome. The head joint liner/tuning slide appears to be brass with nickel plate worn off.

I have one other vintage flute to tinker with, not enough work to hire an apprentice though!
''Whistles of Wood'', cpvc and brass. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69086
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Terry McGee
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by Terry McGee »

Tommy wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:42 pm Terry thank you. Looking at it today with a better magnifying glass I believe it says Regent. Also has the name Simpson, brand name?
OK, The NLI has him as:

Simpson, John, 260 Regent Street, St. James, c1826-c1830
Listed as a maker, and a number of flutes survive. Made a rather odd model attributed to John Clinton. Moved to 266 Regent Street (below)

c1830-1869 266 Regent Street, St. James.
Final address for above. Exhibited in the 1862 Exhibition, where his flutes were sharply criticised by the Count A. D. de Pontecoulant.
And in upper case "PATENT" but I see no numbers.
It was common practice to term your flutes Patent even if you hadn't patented it! Ditto Improved, even if it wasn't!

And serial numbers were a rarity rather than a given. I think usually used when a patron or outworkers were involved, ie you had to keep track of numbers for payments.
I cleaned the rings to look nice but don't know if silver or chrome. The head joint liner/tuning slide appears to be brass with nickel plate worn off.
Wouldn't be chrome in those days, so probably silver or nickel-silver. The former tarnishes black, the latter tarnishes greeny-yellow if you can remember which!
I have one other vintage flute to tinker with, not enough work to hire an apprentice though!
Not so vital now that we've invented electricity!
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by Tommy »

Terry McGee wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:20 pm
Tommy wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:42 pm Terry thank you. Very kind and generous of you to share your knowledge. Your website is also a wealth of information.
I have one other vintage flute to tinker with, not enough work to hire an apprentice though!
Not so vital now that we've invented electricity!
Yes electricity allows us to do many things. Meet and communicate with people globally. Work into the night with better light than a candle.
etc etc
I have only cleaned a few of the rings and removed mostly black, not a spec of green on the rings. There is some green on the tuning slide, comes from the brass I think.
I found a few Simpson flutes on the internet. And read up some on Regent street.
''Whistles of Wood'', cpvc and brass. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69086
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Terry McGee
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Re: Flute making Apprentices

Post by Terry McGee »

Tommy wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:46 pm Yes electricity allows us to do many things. Meet and communicate with people globally. Work into the night with better light than a candle. etc etc
And don't we miss it when it's gone! Almost every aspect of flute making needs power. When the December 2019 bushfires struck here, we lost power well before the fires hit. Not surprisingly, as the feeder lines are all above ground and were taken out long before we saw any action. But it took them a week or so to get the power back on, and even then it was unreliable. Annoying to think we had all that power on the roof in our solar panels, but couldn't access it! Still thinking about getting a battery....
I have only cleaned a few of the rings and removed mostly black, not a spec of green on the rings.
OK, we can safely assume silver.
There is some green on the tuning slide, comes from the brass I think.
That would be right. It's "verdigris" from the copper in the brass.
I found a few Simpson flutes on the internet. And read up some on Regent street.
It's interesting to see how the flute makers seemed to congregate in areas. Cheapside, High Holborn, King Street, New Bond Street, Oxford Street, St. James’s Street, Regent St, The Strand, Tottenham Court Road, Wardour Street all come up many times. Infestations of flute makers! I guess when you are starting out back in those days, it made sense to be in an area where people would go looking for flutes. Now we just hang out in Chiff & Fipple!
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