Slurring notes vs Playing Legato

[Nanohedron]

Ah, post the thing. Maybe we'll get the gist.

Trust me, you won't. I know the tune well, and even so I could barely make out any of it; it's an audio-mush with odd flutey bits just slightly surfacing here and there, and certainly not enough to piece a tune together by. They could've called it The Dog's Bollocks and I'd have bought it.

All the same, here 'tis (first tune of the set):

https://youtu.be/RoVyQg9EQso

[benhall.1]

I know the tune well, and even so I could barely make out any of it; it's an audio-mush with odd flutey bits just slightly surfacing here and there, and certainly not enough to piece a tune together by. They could've called it The Dog's Bollocks and I'd have bought it.

Er ... yes ... it's a challenge ...

[Steampacket]

"The thing is, I know I've asked you this before, so if you can answer, I'll save the thing this time! Do you have a link to the reel Rutherglen Road? Or dots, or something? Youtube?" benhall

Here are the dots to Rutherglen Road and Rakes of Glasgow. Good tunes the both:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/118 ... 6/MM06.pdf

From a Nigel Gatherer workshop 2015

[benhall.1]

"The thing is, I know I've asked you this before, so if you can answer, I'll save the thing this time! Do you have a link to the reel Rutherglen Road? Or dots, or something? Youtube?" benhall

Here are the dots to Rutherglen Road and Rakes of Glasgow. Good tunes the both:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/118 ... 6/MM06.pdf

From a Nigel Gatherer workshop 2015

Good man! Yay!

That is the one, right, Nano?

[Steampacket]

Aye it's the right tune, in D. The other one is called Kevin O'Neill of Rutherglen and is a-minor as yer man N mentioned.

[benhall.1]

Aye it's the right tune, in D. The other one is called Kevin O'Neill of Rutherglen and is a-minor as yer man N mentioned.

Right. That's my practice for the evening settled then!

Thanks again!

[Nanohedron]

That is the one, right, Nano?

Absolutely, and thanks to our trusty hero Steampacket.

In my search I happened to find myself on Nigel Gatherer's site, too. It looked promising, but I couldn't find the tune. Wonder what I did wrong...

So anyway, imagine clipping that first F#, the initial downbeat of the A section. It may not be for everyone, but all the same it's a tasty thing.

[benhall.1]

Wonder what I did wrong.

In general, or just in this particular instance?

[Nanohedron]

Wonder what I did wrong.

In general, or just in this particular instance?

Well, it looks like you're the one to ask. But instead of a philosophical morass, I was hoping we could finally now resume the discussion on legato playing.

[benhall.1]

Wonder what I did wrong.

In general, or just in this particular instance?

Well, it looks like you're the one to ask. But instead of a philosophical morass, I was hoping we could finally now resume the discussion on legato playing.

Spoilsport.

[Nanohedron]

Well. I guess that put a damper on things.

[benhall.1]

I think, for me, the most interesting point in all of this is the one summed up in the following two comments:

Interestingly, Harry is pretty careful to say that he doesn't do glottal "stops".

Not everyone views a stop as an actual stop, as we've seen in Harry's case, but I think it's fair to say that breath articulation plays as important a role as finger articulation for many flute players.

I had forgotten that Harry preaches this 'pulsing' effect. I had a few lessons from Harry a few years back, and they really helped my playing. His idea - if I have it right - was that you needed the glottal for articulation, but that it was important not to stop the flow of the sound. The stunningly good rhythmic playing that he achieves shows that it really works.

I never achieved the same sort of thing myself (a continuous flow of sound with rhythmic pulsing), but trying to do so dramatically improved the rhythmic sense and drive in my flute playing.

[Nanohedron]

It sounds as if my take on the matter might be close. For me, pulsing is done with the throat relaxed and open; only the diaphragm is involved. For some it may feel like the chest. You might combine stops and pulsing, but neither is fundamentally essential to the other. Again, though, these are my own thoughts.

Gently whisper "huh" without ever closing the throat at all. To me, that's the essence of pulsing; it's an unrestricted little air-push from down in the gut, and nothing else. Although I mention diaphragm, chest and gut, this doesn't mean it requires a special effort. It should be dead easy. But it should also be applied with some delicacy of control, because unbridled pulse-blasting will only make your playing sound brutish and repellent.

With pulsing - as I think of it - you should be able to play completely legato and give emphasis by means of the diaphragm alone. Pulses are simple things - just nodes of pressure along the continuum of a breath.

My 2 cents' worth, anyway...

[jemtheflute]

I'm with Nano.
Moreover, notwithstanding the clear traditionality of throat stop attacks, personally I still don't like them and very rarely use them voluntarily (there may be occasional involuntary ones, even including audible grunts......).
However, I do deliberately use very light and quite low down laryngeal closure of the throat to cut off the air stream to end notes, especially phrase end or final ones, though I do sometimes use a tongue stop in those places too - with no particular thought out rhyme or reason to it - no conscious choice, just doing what comes naturally. I daresay that that sometimes means the release of such a throat closure serves as the attack on the following note, if there is one.

There’s some fairly energetic pulsing going on in this video of mine, and a little bit of tonguing, but no deliberate throat stops at all: https://youtu.be/dZan0UM4XLI

[david_h]

There seems to a reluctance to call a glottal stop a glottal stop. Not just in this discussion, but almost every time it is discussed.

Jem, I think I know what you mean, but why say " ... throat stop attacks, personally I still don't like them ... " and then "quite low down laryngeal closure of the throat to cut off the air stream"?

The glottal stop is well defined in linguistics. Is there doubt that that is what flute players are doing when they use the term?