CP: Chiff and Fipple newcomer - AODYO

[AODYO]

Hi there,

Didn't find the right place to say hello to this forum and give you some hints about what we are preparing and how it could possibly be interesting (?) for members here.

In just a few words, we designed a new Wind Controller (yes something with electronic inside), the SYLPHYO which is currently made available through a crowdfunding campaign here:

http://igg.me/at/aodyo/x/10696385

We are a small team located in the north of France.

Just to show you a picture of the instrument:



Currently, the fingering available is the flute recorder fingering. We also plan to provide some clarinet, sax, oboe, EVI, fingering for musicians playing such instruments.

After some discussion with one irish flute player, we thought it could be a good idea to also provide irish flute fingering for the SYLPHYO. This would require to also adapt the way you can change from one octave to another by blowing "harder" but as we also planned some overblow technics to be available on the Sylphyo thanks to our new breath sensing technic, this shouldn't be a problem. Now our main concern is to know if there is a somehow standard fingering that one can find somewhere. Google search provided us various fingering chart often similar but not quite the same. Our question is if there is something mostly used in terms of fingering chart. Thanks for your help as this would help us to provide something useful to some of you.

Musically.

Laurent from the AODYO team

[an seanduine]

Hmm. At first glance, your controller calls for employing the finger tips to actuate the sensors. . .which significantly limits it utility for my
purposes.

Bob

[accordionstu]

Sorry is it just me that doesn't get it? Its a midi synth melodica? Why ?

[AODYO]

Hmm. At first glance, your controller calls for employing the finger tips to actuate the sensors. . .which significantly limits it utility for my
purposes.

Bob

Actually, finger sensing use capacitive sensing to provide a similar behavior as what you get with flute holes.

[AODYO]

Sorry is it just me that doesn't get it? Its a midi synth melodica? Why ?

The idea behind the Sylphyo is mainly to provide a solution to allow acoustic instrument users to also use electronic instruments beside their main acoustic instrument for many purposes (silent blow and fingering practicing, easier score writing, access to alternate sound palette, multiple fingering and tuning provided by one unique instrument, ...). It also allows synthesizer players to play differently their instruments and start using wind instrument ...

[megapop]

Now our main concern is to know if there is a somehow standard fingering that one can find somewhere.

Hi Laurent, the most important bit for "Irish" flute playing is the 6 open diatonic finger holes (as you have with the "keyless" flute or the tin whistle), producing the same notes in the 1st 2 octaves. For more detailed charts have a look at this sticky thread... depends on how many keys you want to implement I suppose, but the main 6 to 8 keys are pretty much standardised. Good luck anyway!

Why ?

You can play quietly with earphones, and you can record the MIDI signal with the same dynamics you'd play a real flute. And above all: why not?

Edit: x-post

[oleorezinator]

Sometimes there's just nothing new
in the world. The Lyricon hit the stage
in 1975 and gave woodwind players
a go at the synth thing. Here's Mike
Urbaniak (who just so happens to be 
a violin player,) with Billy Cobham in 1981.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd1SZuqvmvQ

The Akai controller came out in the mid 80's.
Here's a Yamaha controlling a minimoog.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MoA9QL35W0A
Both the Lyricon and Yamaha had a reed that
could bend the pitch or be played with just the breath.

[AODYO]

The Sylphyo is not meant to provide something new for just the purpose of providing something new.
Our intention is to provide something familiar to wind instrument player which is easy to start with and provide similar feeling to acoustic instrument

We also know about all the former wind controller, especially the lovely Lyricon.

At a first look, the Sylphyo is just one other wind controller but we made it different to the others. But the differences are more in the details...

The Lyricon and Yamaha WX range are providing key mechanism so much more in the spirit of clarinet or sax feeling. Lyricon had Metal key mechanism and WX series plastic keys mechanism.
The Akai EWI provide touch keys instead. As soon as you touch the key the note is triggered.
On the SYLPHYO we used a different principle (though also based on capacitive sensing) which only trigger a note change when the key is fully covered (just similar to what you have to do when covering hole on a flute recorder). This is the first new thing provided by the SYLPHYO.

Regarding breath sensing, all the previously available wind controller are based on pressure sensing with a really small volume to breath in which often lead acoustic wind players to have to adapt their blowing technics to the electronic instrument. This means you have to lower the breath you blow through the instrument compared to acoustic wind instrument, or change the way you blow to also let air flow around the mouthpiece and not only through the instrument. This is the second point where the SYLPHYO distinguish itself from the others as it provide real space for breathing inside the instrument to provide similar blowing feeling to acoustic instrument blowing. You have a real tube for air flow inside the Sylphyo with similar dimension to acoustic wind instrument. This also allowed us to implement high resolution breath flow sensing with adjustable sensitivity to allow user to setup the instrument to behave similar to their preferred acoustic wind instrument.

The standard mouthpiece provided with the Sylphyo provide similar feeling to a flute recorder ("easy" access to wind playing) but we also added a connection to allow future active mouthpiece to be used alternatively to the current mouthpiece providing reed control technics for example.

One other point is to provide Wireless MIDI connexion. No cable to prevent you from moving around while playing the instrument. MIDI connexion available on the Wireless MIDI receiver provides USB MIDI and standard 5 pins MIDI connectors allowing the use of any sound source with the SYLPHYO, from hardware synth, to virtual synth on a computer or iOS device.

The Sylphyo also provide extra control which can be used to add some extra control other sound generation, sound processing or even visual effects control: we added one right thumb slider and a motion sensor for that purpose.

Another difference is about the size of the instrument which is "only" 40 cm and 400 g compared to the almost 1 kg and 70 cm of the WX and EWI.

As stated first, our intention was not to provide something new, but rather something different and useful ...

[kkrell]

I think one of the questions is whether the instrument would sense piper's grip fingering. Seems that flat fingers across the "holes" might not activate the sensors.

[Steampacket]

I doubt the SYLPHYO would be of any great interest to the majority of Irish flute players as the SYLPHYO lacks the embouchure hole found on the wooden flute used in the tradition. Learning to develop one's embouchure, to keep it in shape, and to be able to practice on one's wooden flute is vital to becoming a proficient player. I'd say this is most important as fingering is quickly learnt.

However I wish you luck in your endeavors as there could be interest from saxophone players etc.. In 1984 Casio made a digital wind synthesizer, the Casio DH 100/200 MIDI horn. In 1989 they were sold here in the local toy shop for $9. I bought one, still have it somewhere. It was/is surprisingly good, as a MIDI sax, trumpet, oboe for example, still is as people still buy them http://www.patchmanmusic.com/dh100sales.html
Not any use for Irish trad. though unless that's the sound you're after. Anyone still use V-pipes?

[jim stone]

I;d like to hear the oboe voice. I think celtic tunes would sound grand on oboe.

[oleorezinator]

I like the "Built in the past for the future" look
of the instrument. It reminds me of a tonette.

On the SYLPHYO we used a different principle (though also based on capacitive sensing) which only trigger a note change when the key is fully covered (just similar to what you have to do when covering hole on a flute recorder). This is the first new thing provided by the SYLPHYO.

If you can't do glissando or mircotones with
the hole being partially covered and it only triggers
by being fully covered then it's very much like the Akai.

Regarding breath sensing, all the previously available wind controller are based on pressure sensing with a really small volume to breath in which often lead acoustic wind players to have to adapt their blowing technics to the electronic instrument This also allowed us to implement high resolution breath flow sensing with adjustable sensitivity to allow user to setup the instrument to behave similar to their preferred acoustic wind instrument.

Having played saxophone, flute, clarinet, recorder and a number
of rennaissance period double reed and wind cap instruments, one must
ALWAYS adapt the blowing technique. The Lyricon, Akai and Yamaha
all have breath velocity sensors.

The standard mouthpiece provided with the Sylphyo provide similar feeling to a flute recorder ("easy" access to wind playing) but we also added a connection to allow future active mouthpiece to be used alternatively to the current mouthpiece providing reed control technics for example.

As do the Lyricon and Yamaha for reed players
although the reed trigger could be switched off.

One other point is to provide Wireless MIDI connexion. No cable to prevent you from moving around while playing the instrument. MIDI connexion available on the Wireless MIDI receiver provides USB MIDI and standard 5 pins MIDI connectors allowing the use of any sound source with the SYLPHYO, from hardware synth, to virtual synth on a computer or iOS device.

Something new and very useful.

The Sylphyo also provide extra control which can be used to add some extra control other sound generation, sound processing or even visual effects control: we added one right thumb slider and a motion sensor for that purpose.

Like the thumb actuated controls on the Yahama and Akai.

[AODYO]

The finger triggering mode we currently have is the way it works for now on the prototype but our intention is indeed to add later partially covered hole, see how we would be able to manage glissando from progressive hole covering and uncovering and modify slightly the design to allow "flat fingers across the "holes" as described by kkrell. All this not as a default behavior as such way to play requires some technics but something made available to advanced user.

The difference with the EWI here is that any touch on the EWI keys just trigger the note either if you fully covered the key or if you slightly touch the border of it. On the Sylphyo, we are using a technic that should allow to have more than just contact and non contact: we measure a continuous contact signal and currently just decide if contact is there or not with a threshold but we could manage such thing differently.

I agree you always have to adapt the blowing technique to a new instrument but we would like to provide something that could be as close as possible to the feeling you have with one acoustic instrument. Also true that Lyricon, Akai and Yamaha all provide breath sensing but due to the way it is designed (small volume available for air flow), the feeling you get when blowing in one of these is much different from blowing into an acoustic instrument: you can only send quite limited airflow into the instrument and if you want to blow in a similar manner as what you do on an acoustic instrument, you have to blow inside the instrument AND let air also flow around the mouthpiece leading to quite different habits compared to acoustic irish whistle for example.

Regarding the reed mouthpiece, we still have to work on this to achieve similar results to the one we got on the breath sensing. Some of us are Yamaha WX player but we are not really satisfied with the way the reed sensor works and would like to achieve something closer to what you have on a clarinet or saxophone.

Besides the thumb slider, the newest thing is the motion sensor. It could be used either to add some slight modification to the sound produced from the motion made with the instrument, or have some more important effect on sound but this time using one of the motion as a substitute to the breath control and others to add extra control... more about this in a forthcoming video we are currently working on.

[AODYO]

Just one more word. After one small adjustment, "flat finger across the "holes" now also work on the Sylphyo...

[kkrell]

Just one more word. After one small adjustment, "flat finger across the "holes" now also work on the Sylphyo...

Great. Now let's see if you can push it one step further for simulating partial hole closure for half-holing & let's call it pitch bending. I suppose some of this can be effected by the player through control of the air flow. Still, you're unlikely to be able to provide the same pitch effects of waving a finger (approaching/receding vertically) above the hole to flatten/vary pitch. But then, you're not trying to have an electronic simulation of a conventional instrument, so much as provide a versatile wind-controller that offers a different and complex range of possibilities for the player. I expect that while some of that versatility comes from capabilities and sensitivity of sensors, creative software or firmware implementation can also make many features available.