Flute Maintenance- Wood Vs. Plastic

[jemtheflute]

Of course, it was some time before he saw that ebonite turned green or shades thereof!

As pointed out on another thread about ebonite a while back, modern ebonite does NOT go green, yellow, pale brown or craze and crack. Those problems of early ebonite in the C19th were to do with chemical impurities/imbalances in the material - and not even all antique examples suffer from those problems (good luck!). Modern ebonite as made for many uses and still regularly used for student level oboes and clarinets (not to mention certain Indian and Pakistani "flutes") is made with modern understanding of chemistry and materials and doesn't have the same problems.

[CranberryDog]

Recently some members have been advocating a flute made of plastic over wood. They have been advising new players to buy a plastic flute. It seems nuts that a person would chose (all thing$ being equal) a flute based on anything other than the sound - which includes ease of playing, intonation, volume, sweetness, etc.
Time of assembly: it takes me 6 seconds to assemble my wooden flute and 2.5 seconds to dissemble it.
Cleaning: about ten seconds. Max
Reliability: I've been playing wood flutes for nearly twenty years with no problem. Hot weather, cold, humid, dry.
True, wooden flutes aren't as strong as plastic flutes. I wouldn't whack the dog with my wooden flute but if you're using your plastic flute for that there are better choices.
For making music there is nothing better than a wooden flute. Period. For beginner or accomplished player. If you're not a serious player it doesn't matter what you buy. But if you're at all serious you should buy the best flute you can afford. If you can't afford much, a Casey Burns folk flute for $300 is the best bargain out there. Hands down. No plastic flute comes close.

Just for fun, I thought I might return to the original post.

I agree that the CB flute would be an excellent first choice for a beginner. I have nothing against synthetic materials and will probably get a Delrin flute after I get the wooden flutes on my wish list.

[Cork]

...Delrin/ebonite feels greasy...

While I have very little experience with ebonite, Delrin/polymer does get a greasy feel to it, and wood is more comfortable, in that regard.

[Berti66]

I disagree about the greasy feel....partial.
YES it can feel greasy/ be slippery (my first was a Dixon) BUT it all depends how the maker treats/ finishes the surface of the flute.
Jon C's flutes do NOT feel greasy at all and have a very good grip.

berti

[greenspiderweb]

Recently some members have been advocating a flute made of plastic over wood. They have been advising new players to buy a plastic flute. It seems nuts that a person would chose (all thing$ being equal) a flute based on anything other than the sound - which includes ease of playing, intonation, volume, sweetness, etc.
Time of assembly: it takes me 6 seconds to assemble my wooden flute and 2.5 seconds to dissemble it.
Cleaning: about ten seconds. Max
Reliability: I've been playing wood flutes for nearly twenty years with no problem. Hot weather, cold, humid, dry.
True, wooden flutes aren't as strong as plastic flutes. I wouldn't whack the dog with my wooden flute but if you're using your plastic flute for that there are better choices.
For making music there is nothing better than a wooden flute. Period. For beginner or accomplished player. If you're not a serious player it doesn't matter what you buy. But if you're at all serious you should buy the best flute you can afford. If you can't afford much, a Casey Burns folk flute for $300 is the best bargain out there. Hands down. No plastic flute comes close.

Just for fun, I thought I might return to the original post.
I agree that the CB flute would be an excellent first choice for a beginner. I have nothing against synthetic materials and will probably get a Delrin flute after I get the wooden flutes on my wish list.

Good idea, CranberryDog! I think some missed the point of Cocus' post, and got a little lost along the way.

As a long time advocate for plastic flutes, I still have to agree with Cocus that a wooden flute has the edge in tone and response (to my ears) given that you get a good wooden flute.

Though personally, I still think that a good plastic flute (stress on good), is still a good flute, and you can make some nice music on them. They have a place and time where they are also great to have instead of a valuable or cherished wooden flute.

But for a serious beginner, don't pass up on the best wooden flute you can afford, for any concerns about durability and difficulty of care of wooden flutes. Given reasonable care and common sense, wooden flutes are easy to care for and very durable.

If you can't be bothered with the care factor, then just get a plastic flute, but just know that you might be missing how nice it is to have a wooden flute. Ever heard of Wooden Flute Obsession (great CDs too)? There's a good reason it's called that!

[peeplj]

If you can't be bothered with the care factor, then just get a plastic flute, but just know that you might be missing how nice it is to have a wooden flute. Ever heard of Wooden Flute Obsession (great CDs too)? There's a good reason it's called that!

Don't make the mistake of confusing the flute and the flutist, though.

When you're talking folks who play on that level, you're talking about people who could play on a flute turned out of a large carrot and still sound better than I sound playing my Hamilton.

While you're listening to those fine CD's, please check out track 20 on disk 1 of the original Woodenflute Obsession CD, and listen to the fine music that Tom Doorley made when he was playing a Delrin flute by Desi Seery.

That track is your target: if you don't sound at least that good when you try a Seery flute, then the difference isn't the flute: it's you.

--James

P.S. Also on this CD on track 19 you can hear Turlach Boylan playing his ebonite flute, which was discussed earlier, and on track 10 you can hear Noel Rice making some mighty fine music on a silver Boehm system flute.

[Azalin]

When you're talking folks who play on that level, you're talking about people who could play on a flute turned out of a large carrot and still sound better than I sound playing my Hamilton.

There you go James, you got the solution for the destruction of rare woods for making flutes... orange flutes made of carrot! Juts don' leave your rabbit around your instruments hehe...

[cocusflute]

I had no idea this thread wood take on such a life of its own. I still maintain what I said in the first post—

1. As far as sound goes wood is superior to plastic.
2. Maintenance on a wood flute isn’t difficult. Some great players never clean their wood flute. They still sound great.
3. A wood CB flute with a base price of $300 is a better choice for making music than a more expensive plastic flute.
4. The exception is if the flute has to endure really adverse conditions, as you might find in the desert or in the Antarctic.

I've played in New England in the winter when the RH has been 20% in the house. And in the summer when the RH is 90%. I've taken my timber flute on bicycle rides in all sorts of conditions - with no problems. I've shipped flutes all over the world, in all sorts of weather, with no problems.

Granted that Turlach Boylan or Tom Doorly (who BTW now plays a wooden flute) can make great music on a plastic flute. This does not argue for the superiority of the flute but rather for the superiority of the two players.

People who argued in support of plastic did so for other considerations than musical. An exception was the guy from China, the home of all things plastic: “a delrin flute well made by a top maker can sounds good as one made in blackwood!”). Did you know that 99% of all the world’s toys are now made in China? What do you suppose these toys are made of?

Doc asked, “Cocus have you played both for others or just for yourself?” I’ve played a number of plastic flutes. One thing I’ve discovered is that what I hear as I play is not the same as what other people hear. The better it sounds to me, the better I play. What other people say they hear is by and large irrelevant.

I did play an expensive antique ebonite flute but I couldn’t get past the smell. I agree with Migoya that “The difference in tone and feel is striking from Delrin to wood. There is no comparison. None.” I also agree that the feel of Delrin can be “greasy.” And a Delrin flute is heavy. As Barry said, “a wooden flute has the edge in tone and response.”

My wife got a kick out of the guy who said he liked a plastic flute because he could “leave it in my backpack and drag it around everywhere.” I think most of would not think of having to "drag around" a flute . Rather, we feel lucky to have a flute at hand which we can play. Maybe he should leave it in the backpack, period. Then he wouldn’t be “bothered” to play it.

[peeplj]

cocusflute, you sound a bit like a man with issues!

Seriously, I see nothing wrong with owning either or both.

I own several flutes, and I feel that playing each one has taught me things that the others couldn't teach me.

Best to ya,

--James

[cocusflute]

Hey James, tell me what playing a plastic flute has taught you about playing the flute. Not just a different flute, but a plastic flute.

[peeplj]

Hey James, tell me what playing a plastic flute has taught you about playing the flute. Not just a different flute, but a plastic flute.

Sure, can do.

The Seery in particular rewards a very muscular embouchure combined with a strong, well-supported airstream. Give it what it likes, and you get a big booming, ringing sound with a nice bit of edge.

When I was waiting for my Hamilton, I played my Seery almost exclusively, and I think one reason that I had no real trouble adjusting to the Hamilton was due to the fact that working with the Seery had my chops in good shape for it.

Of course, the Hamilton also rewards that same style of play, giving you a lovely, rich sound that has an almost metallic ring.

But the two flutes are different. The Hamilton rings more and has slightly more volume; the Seery has a lovely glistening edge to its sound that really adds both elegance and power to its sound.

Now you can get that same kind of sound on a Hamilton, by changing the embouchure a bit, but it doesn't do it as freely or easily as the Seery.

By contrast, again by adjusting the embouchure, you can get that clear, almost metallic ringing in the Seery's tone, but it doesn't do this as well or as easily as the Hamilton.

By playing both, I feel I've developed quite a bit of flexibility in my embouchure, tone, and control, that I don't feel I would have to this degree had I played only one flute at the exclusion of the others.

Also, I have the ability to pick up almost any flute, now, and quickly find an approach that gets a reasonably good sound from it. This ability came from having several flutes and dividing my playing time between them.

That Seery flute is made of a heavy polymer (plastic, if you prefer) called Delrin.

Best,

--James

[Nanohedron]

And a Delrin flute is heavy.

I can't agree so far as a keyless Seery goes. Well, I play a blackwood 8-key with rather thick walls, so...

But I will say that the particular Delrin jobbie I have in mind has flex to it that wood doesn't, and that it has a disconcertingly sproingy-bouncy wobble to it when I've played it. Not a lot, but enough to freak me out.

[withak]

Also, I have the ability to pick up almost any flute, now, and quickly find an approach that gets a reasonably good sound from it. This ability came from having several flutes and dividing my playing time between them.

That Seery flute is made of a heavy polymer (plastic, if you prefer) called Delrin.

The differences you describe sound more like differences one would expect from two flutes from different makers. What evidence is there that one of the flutes being plastic has anything to do with your observations?

Someone needs to find two flutes that are as physically identical as possible with the exception of the material they are made out of, then mail them around for everyone to try.

[peeplj]

Also, I have the ability to pick up almost any flute, now, and quickly find an approach that gets a reasonably good sound from it. This ability came from having several flutes and dividing my playing time between them.

That Seery flute is made of a heavy polymer (plastic, if you prefer) called Delrin.

The differences you describe sound more like differences one would expect from two flutes from different makers. What evidence is there that one of the flutes being plastic has anything to do with your observations?

That's kind of the point.

It's not that the material of a flute doesn't matter; it's that the cut of the embouchure and the profile of the bore and the tone holes has a lot more to do with its quality of sound than of the material it's made from, as long as it's airtight.

--James

[jim stone]

'But for a serious beginner, don't pass up on the best wooden flute you can afford, for any concerns about durability and difficulty of care of wooden flutes. Given reasonable care and common sense, wooden flutes are easy to care for and very durable.'

I think this is the point.

Delrin flutes can indeed be good flutes
and personally I think the seery delrin a better flute
than the folk flute, which is also a good flute.
The seery is maybe twice the price of the folk flute
and a good deal more demanding to play.
I bought mine from a fellow who couldn't
get the seery embouchure. I think the FF is the
better beginner's flute.

Also there is somewhere our there an Olwell
delrin flute. It's had to believe it's less good
than the FF!

I've not played a Jon C or a Ward delrin, but I would
be surprised if they weren't a good deal better
than the FF, which is a very good beginner's flute for the price
but not the flute from hell. Again they cost a lot
more than a FF. So I don't think every decent wooden
flute sounds better than more expensive delrin flutes.

But I believe that, at the point your paying for a
delrin flute that sounds better than a FF, you're approaching
a price where there are wooden flutes available
that probably sound better than the delrin flutes.

Another reason for the serious beginner to start with wood,
by the way,
is to learn how to take care of a wooden flute. If you're
serious you will almost certainly end up with a wooden
flute, after all.

One care issue about wood--I do think it's prudent to humidify
wooden flutes in dry situations, e.g. central heating in
the winter. Wood shrinks when it's dry and this can cause
cracking. Not that it must, but I do think the risk
is real and can't be prudently ignored.
This is the most significant care issue about wood, but it
doesn't amount to much. Easy enough solutions.
I use a humidifier in the room where I keep my flutes,
which has the advantage of humidifying the air I
breathe, too.