Ignorance of the flute playing tradition?

[GaryKelly]

In his 1971 book "Folk Music and Dances of Ireland",

Group playing is another modern fashion to be
avoided...Traditional playing, it must be remembered, is of
its very nature a personal expression, and the restraint demanded in playing in
a band or other ensemble kills the spirit which animates it.

and

Imitating the style of some outstanding player is
an excellent way of making progress in the initial stages of learning but it is
not a course one should persist in. As soon as some proficiency has been
attained, one should listen to a tune to learn it, not to acquire its style. A
second-hand player always remains a second-rate player.

He also says, concerning tunes which can be considered 'traditional':

Heretofore the process of selection by the
community over a lengthy period decided which pieces and forms were admitted to
the national store. Nowadays, however, new compositions may be heard by more
players in the course of two or three years than were the older tunes over as
many generations, and an almost instant decision on the acceptance or rejection
of a tune is now possible because of radio programmes and fleadhanna ceoil.
Acceptance by the body of musicians in this manner is the modern equivalent of
the older and more lengthy process of selection.

Fascinating book. Reprinted 1996 by Ossian, ISBN 1 1 900428 65

[Cayden]

Breandan is spot on there, but it is helpful to remember that circumstances have changed enormously over the past 30 years and while Breandan's book is great it is also becoming quite dated on some aspects of the material.

I think also that while Jack is right, it should be borne in mind that when you listen to recorded material you're only listening to the tip of the iceberg. The real number of fluteplayers is vastly bigger and you can be sure that the Molloys and Crawfords of this world are very well aware of many fluteplayers you may not have even heard of. All these fluteplayers have contributed elements to these men's eclectic personal styles which places both of them firmly with both feet in the fluteplaying tradition.

[lesl]

What a fascinating thread. I didn't read everything carefully so this might
have been mentioned, but if not, this site has a mix of old and new but I
find it particularly fascinating with the detailed notes on how the tunes
were played -
http://www.rogermillington.com/tunetoc/index.html
Mind you half the fun is to take a recording and do that work yourself
where you learn about the tune as you go. This site has a lot of work done
by "our" Peter Laban which is in inkling of what to do if you want to really
grasp the music.

I have to mention a point, my teacher warned me from the very beginning
to watch out for Matt Molloy because he "fools around with the notes" of
tunes. Only to discover on the recent interview that MM gave to that nice
Chiff lady, he said himself he puts his feet up on his desk and fools
around with the tunes! ha! (btw, someone asked about how MM learned his
style and I recall reading about this somewhere, maybe in Brad Hurley's
site where he has the flute interviews)

I think there are a lot of styles out there, and also this prevalence for a
homogenising of style (at the moment in my stage of development I hear
it as "the way I learned" vs. "them") but if you only listen to commercial
fast players it will give you a sort of skewed idea of what there is.

I like Gary's quotes from Breathnach as I think they are really good guide
lines, taken in context with when he wrote them. I mean come to think
of it, when I first started to read the IrTrad L e list, I discovered that the
Bothy Band was not considered trad but a pop band! And truly, if you
learnt all the tunes they play without hearing the Bothies, and then
listened to them later, you would be amazed at what they did to the tunes.
In my opinion that is.

Well not sure if I made any points here but am hoping some of it is useful.

Lesl

[Cayden]

I think experimenting with the tunes, emulating different approaches finding different corners in tunes etc is an essential part of playing, listen how Willie Clancy on a good day took a tune all over the ship (an he used to be able to do that on the flute before he lost the teeth).

I don't know how some people like to call the Bothy Band, most musicans I knew loved what they were doing, they would not necessarily do it themselves but they appreciated it nevertheless. I remember piper/fiddler Martin Rochford saying as much. The first set of tunes on the second Borthy outing are all Rochford tunes by the way. As far as I am concerned the BB's innovation was really in the backing. the approach to the tunes is not all that new, at least tunes like the Enchanted Lady and The Holy Land didn't change an awfull lot since Paddy Killoran recorded them. Good stuff though.

[Dr Funkenstein]

Since we're on the topic of past flute players, can anyone point me towards some recordings of Mikey Cronin? John Skelton has named Cronin as an early influence, and I'd like to check out his playing. But of course, I can't locate anything through the usual online suspects.

--Jeff

[moxy]

"I like what I like and I don't like what I don't like. Even if it's something that I'm supposed to like."
-Desi Wilkinson

Brilliant

[kevin m.]

Nothing to do with the current subject,Moxy-but I have to say that your current Avatar is MUCH better that that horrible electrified Cat that you had before.
Errr-That WAS you with that horrible avatar before,wasn't it??

[moxy]

You mean this one??



OK, I've put it back to the way it was!

[lesl]

As far as I am concerned the BB's innovation was
really in the backing. the approach to the tunes is not all that new, at
least tunes like the Enchanted Lady and The Holy Land didn't change an
awfull lot since Paddy Killoran recorded them. Good stuff though.

Aha that explains it for me. My husband is a big fan of Kevin Burke's
music, so I've learnt a lot of the Bothies tunes, by osmosis really. I only
found them rather ..quick.. when getting to listen to them on the record!
Lesl

[Cayden]

They were quick alright but that's hardy an innovation

[mcdafydd]

...The bottom line is that the many of the players nowadays are too polished, and have lost the feel of the music. And the albums are too commercial, have horrible accompaniment, dishonest, played too fast and just don't have hte depth of the older stuff. My opinion of course.

I hear that. But what I also hear in that is a common statement that can be said by most people about music that they love. It changes, all the time, whether trad folk music from Ireland, Eastern Europe, India, or the 80's in America. It used to upset me to no end to hear people talk about today's alternative music in the late 90's and then to hear what a detraction it was from The Cure, Erasure, and Depeche Mode. That, of course, being from the time before I swore off pop radio culture years ago for lack of innovation in today's cookie-cutter music formula.

There are so many music-lovers and musicians out there, and everyone by nature of being human will continue to be at different stages of development in technical virtuosity, attachment of feeling to a tune, tempo, inner sense of rhythm, etc. In general execution of human desires, it is always a beautiful thing to encounter someone who possesses real intuitive passion sharing what inspires them to in turn inspire us.

[djm]

Errr-That WAS you with that horrible avatar before,wasn't it??

Whats wrong with catses, precious?

There are lots of ways to innovate with existing tunes, but some of those versions should have been left on the cutting room floor. A good version picks most listeners up by the ears, no matter how different it is.

I don't understand all this picking on Matt Molloy. Is it just jealousy? His is not the only flute in town, but I find what he does brilliant and always very listenable. Liam O'Flynn notes Molloy as being one of the few flute players who can find the piping in the music, so you know Molloy must be doing it right.

djm

[Whistlin'Dixie]

I don't understand all this picking on Matt Molloy.

djm

I'm with you on that one....

M

[Wormdiet]

I don't understand all this picking on Matt Molloy.

djm

I'm with you on that one....

M

+1

[peeplj]

I'm with you on that one....

M

+1

Ditto. His playing was one of the first things that made me want to learn Irish flute. My background was on the classical side, and I had developed this really rabid curiosity about how he got a flute to make all of those wonderful sounds.

--James