What exactly is good tone?

[jemtheflute]

Anyway, I don't see a future in it for me.........

[Aanvil]

aim lower Aanvil

Whaa?

Any more and I'll need a shovel.

[jemtheflute]

aim lower Aanvil

Whaa?

Any more and I'll need a shovel.

Pass me one. I'm good at holes. Trained for it, see (archaeologist).

[Akiba]

My cookie last night read:

Tomorrow will be productive. Do not oversleep.

"Tomorrow You will have a very good tone. Do not overblow."

Good fortune for me--I'm finding that it's not how much air but how focused the air. Playing a Rudall style flute also I think requires more of an optimal airflow.

Anyways, about the topic, I think the vast spectrum of tone in the Irish flute world is one of its great strengths and what makes it such a great art form for flutists. I will admit that, listening to the Wooden Flute Obsession, some player's tone I just do not get and would not be happy with at all. Right now I'm listening to the solo CD's of Mike McGoldrick, John Wynne and Paul McGratten. Mike and John have similar tone, being more lyrical Rudall players (what I'm emulating at this time). Paul has more of the reedy, intense Pratten sound--I appreciate it, but am not trying to sound like that. That being said, I think my tone is more edgy and reedy than it has been in the past, but still more centered than many.

Overall, they all have "good tone". Tone can also be connected to a style, an approach to the music. Some folks are more concerned with playing rhythmically--a reedy, pulsing, full of overtones type of tone tends to work better for that. Others are more interested in bringing out the rise and fall of the melody and tend toward a more centered tone. Tone usually fits the style.

[Aanvil]

aim lower Aanvil

Whaa?

Any more and I'll need a shovel.

Pass me one. I'm good at holes. Trained for it, see (archaeologist).

Jem's one bad mummy lover!

Shut yo mouth!

I'm just talking about Jem!

[Denny]

maybe it's the curvature of the earth.....

[Unseen122]

David - I think voices are much more individual than D flutes. Different pitches at the very least, sigificantly different sized throats, dentition, etc. Our wooden flutes are much more standard in design and range than voices.

I do get your point though...it's kind of an non-answerable question I asked. But good tone gets tossed around so often and I've spent too much time personally thinking about the issue not to foist it upon the C&F group as a whole!

Eric

Well, I think that David has it right in a sense, yes flutes are more standardized but every player with have different throat sized throats, definition, etc. don't underestimate the effect this has on flute playing. I got my wisdom teeth out about 2 1/2 years ago and before that I always used to turn the head joint in significantly. Now, it was about a week after having them out that the pain subsided enough for me to play again and trying to play with the head joint in the same position did not work at all! I had to turn the head out so the embouchure hole was in line with the tone holes. This certainly had an effect on my tone which after that became a bit smoother and cleaner, not a huge difference mind you but because there was more space in mouth it had an effect on tone and the way I had to shape my mouth to play. A tip my teacher gave me when playing in the higher register is push out your bottom jaw because it will change the shape with of the air-flow and provide a space better suited for achieving the upper register.

Whoever said that good tone is subjective has it spot-on, everybody will have a different opinion on what sounds nice and what good tone means. I think tone is a very personal thing; it is so directly related to style which is so directly related to personality. Yes, there is the work that goes into it and a player should be able to get all sorts of tone out of the instrument but we all have a tone that suits us, and likely that is the tone which we will says is a 'good' tone.'

On fortune cookies I got one a couple years ago that said 'Your dearest wish will come true' I'm still waiting for this to happen.

[Denny]

bit of an aside, eh....

One must remember that the sound under the ear will be different from the sound some distance away.

[Clarinetcat]

...but I do think there is a way of at least eliminating "poor" tone by defining terms of description that would apply to "good" tone.

e.g. rich (in harmonics/partials), round, strong, flexible, sensitive, clear or clean (as in lacking hiss from air-spill rather than lack of harmonics/partials content), well-focussed, open, resonant, vibrant, carrying/penetrating (not in a shrill way), well sustained, colourful, etc. "Pure" is a tricky one - does it mean what I've put as "clear or clean" or does it mean more centred, with less harmonics/partials (though not necessarily lack of power and beauty)?

Jem, let's say you have decided to start "Jem's Jiggy Jammin' Music Studio", teaching begining flute students. Your newest flute student is only about 10 years old, and has never played before.

After a few hours of practice, their sound is strong, yet remains a bit unfocused. It is somewhat shrill and fuzzy, yet sounds better than your other students who have been playing 1-2 months.

Do they have a good tone?

[FascinatedWanderer]

Mcgoldrick.

[Akiba]

Mcgoldrick.

Yes, and:

Molloy (both Rudall and Pratten)
Crawford
Wynne
Skelton
L. Kelly

These and McGldrk's are my favorites right now, but to say that "one" fluter has the good, exemplary tone in Irish fluting is ludicrous. Everyone would make a slightly (or even vastly) different list.

Perhaps you were joking...

[FascinatedWanderer]

Well I was joking in the sense that obviously Mcgoldrick isn't the only one with good tone; however, subjectively speaking I do like his best (possibly second to Molloy on a Rudall).

I have to say (sacrilegiously perhaps) that I'm not a fan of Molloy's tone on a Pratten, it's too much of a growl. His tone on a Rudall is amazing though, as I mentioned.

[jemtheflute]

Jem, let's say you have decided to start "Jem's Jiggy Jammin' Music Studio", teaching begining flute students. Your newest flute student is only about 10 years old, and has never played before.

After a few hours of practice, their sound is strong, yet remains a bit unfocused. It is somewhat shrill and fuzzy, yet sounds better than your other students who have been playing 1-2 months.

Do they have a good tone?

I'm not sure if this is a serious Q.

Ah well, digging my own hole deeper....

Obviously anyone of whom some serious "poor tone" descriptors can be said does not have "good tone". In your instance, the absolute answer would be, obviously, "No", but the relative answer would be "better than the others". Qualifiers like "good for the stage s/he's at" would be relevant and encouraging.

In my first spell of fortune telling, I think I implied (certainly envisaged) that to deserve to be described as having good tone, a player would have to have most of the positive criteria (a few are mutually exclusive, at least at the same instant) and none of the possible negative, converse ones.

[Kirk B]

Tom McElvogue.

Since what type of tone can be considered "good tone" is subjective as others have said, here's my tuppence. I have to whole-heartedly agree with Kevin. I listened to lots of different players in my music collection and thought, "wow I really like that tone. I want to sound like that!" Then I heard Tom McElvogue on that old R&R and thought to myself, "Aw hell, I give up!"

Cheers,

Kirk

[Denny]

that's good tone