Is a Six or Eight-Keyed Flute Worth It?

Blackwood · Post by **Blackwood** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:24 pm

are wheels necessary on a car?
I think keys are a must for any serious player. Granted you can play the majority of tunes without keys, but there are many tunes where it's either incredibly beneficial or even totally necessary to have keys.
The half holing bit is a limited short cut. You lose volume and intonation is not a 100%..
try half holing an Eb in a reel...good luck!

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:03 pm

What I'd really like is a three-key flute -- Eflat, low C# and low C. I cross-finger on small-holed flutes and half-hole on larger-holed flutes. I've never been able to half-hole the Eflat. I've also never been able to figure out multi-keyed flutes. The one-key is the only way I've learned to play in different keys.

No need to point out to me how odd my viewpoint is.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:04 pm

I've heard it said a fair amount that Eb is a note
not much needed in ITM, which is my impression too.
Eb is certainly the most challenging half-hole for me.

As to the other keyed notes, volume seems good, to my
ear, anyhow,
and intonation is as good as you are.
Surely most of us have already mastered
harder things.

I think keys are nice to have, no question, and
can be helpful, again no question. And they're
beautiful.

But I don't much use them, I find, except
for the C natural key. I sometimes positively
prefer to half-hole the Bb. The intonation issue
is arguably a blessing too-because ultimately
you can do stuff with the note.

This isn't an axe I have to grind. I like
keyed flutes. But I doubt that one positively
needs one for ITM. One seldom uses the
keys and most of the time when I do,
half holing serves well enough.

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:13 pm

You could have Copeland just put keys on your existing flute if you like it. He does nice post-mounted keywork.

I'd have no qualms about any of the others mentioned either.

Doc

MJ1619 · Post by **MJ1619** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:35 pm

I think I must have asked the proverbial "can of worms" question.

Thanks to everybody for all your input and insights. With regards to six-key or eight-key, if I had my choice, I would want an eight-key because I would like the low C and C#, if not for ITM, then for classical since I love classical.

However, the question of cost always is the issue and that is where I run into trouble. Six-key is cheaper but eight-key is what I want. Oh well, something will work itself out.

I especially appreciate those who have put me on to the new makers. I looked at the Holmes-McNaughton (sp?) website and their instruments are gorgeous. I need to find out how much they run. I think I probably would try for one of the lesser-known makers since I like the idea of helping out the new guy make his name and because I enjoy getting to know the people who make the instrument I am going to purchase.

The other option that I thought of was what Doc suggested, simply having Mr. Copeland mount keys on my original. I also was thinking of asking him if he could build a new middle joint and foot with keys. That way I could the sound my keyless and have keys as well. Even though I really want keys, I still enjoy the elegant simplicity of the keyless flute.

Thanks again to everybody and if anyone has any more suggestions or comments that they want to throw into the mix, by all means keep the thread going.

Michael

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:46 pm

Seen this? Reviol 8-key on ebay. Got to be tempting to have a shot at it! It's the one Gabriel has been offering on
here with no takers despite a VERY modest asking price! If you have the cash available, talk to him quick!

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:02 pm

Blackwood wrote:are wheels necessary on a car?
I think keys are a must for any serious player. Granted you can play the majority of tunes without keys, but there are many tunes where it's either incredibly beneficial or even totally necessary to have keys.
The half holing bit is a limited short cut. You lose volume and intonation is not a 100%..
try half holing an Eb in a reel...good luck!

Must be an awful lot of top flight ITM players who aren't serious, then, not to mention some of us who are not well known, but play a fair amount, anyway. I thought I was serious. Apparently not. Well, I started on a keyed old German flute, and a Boehm. Maybe I qualify as serious.

No. I mostly play the keyless. Must not be serious, then.

onkel · Post by **onkel** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:59 am

I'd also agree there's a good bunch of professional players who play unkeyed flutes. A while ago I heard a flute player whose name has dropped off my head, anyway he played McGlinchey's Splendid Isolation on an unkeyed D flute in its original key of G minor, half-holing B-flats and F-nats all the time. It sounded brilliant! All the notes were spot on and sounded quite strong, no clue how he did it. Half-holing is not for me, though... I couldn't live without any of the 8 keys on my flute.

Claus

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:58 pm

onkel wrote:I'd also agree there's a good bunch of professional players who play unkeyed flutes. A while ago I heard a flute player whose name has dropped off my head, anyway he played McGlinchey's Splendid Isolation on an unkeyed D flute in its original key of G minor, half-holing B-flats and F-nats all the time. It sounded brilliant! All the notes were spot on and sounded quite strong, no clue how he did it. Half-holing is not for me, though... I couldn't live without any of the 8 keys on my flute.

Claus

I don't know the piece but if it is in Gmin and the piece employs all the notes of the scale than there would be an Eb also.

(BTW folks - Jim Stone included - this is the flute forum and not the ITM forum which to my mind means that a discussion on keyed flute isn't automatically premised on the needs of ITM.)

Santa

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:15 pm

ya missed the sign over the door....
"The Chiff & Fipple Irish Flute on-line community. Sideblown for your protection."

Rob Sharer · Post by **Rob Sharer** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:21 pm

Zing!

cocusflute · Post by **cocusflute** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:33 pm

I've heard it said a fair amount that Eb is a note not much needed in ITM, which is my impression too.

Sure, if you're a chancer whose interest in ITM is as a busker specializing in such all-time favorites as Yankee Doodle and Happy Birthday, then keys aren't all that essential.

But for people who like to play such tunes as The Broken Pledge, Eileen Curran, Bear Island, The Jaundiced Itinerant (as written) and some lovely tunes written by Tom McElvogue, keys are a wonderful addition to the simple flute.

Until you have attained a certain degree of proficiency - and shared it with us - I don't think one should be recommending anything, with or without equivocation. Great ITM players like Seamus Tansey or Mike McGoldrick, who play keyless flutes (or flutes rendered keyless), are a rarity in the pantheon - for a reason.

Blackwood · Post by **Blackwood** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:59 pm

No. I mostly play the keyless. Must not be serious, then.

my, my are we sensitive. if you don't use keys and don't need them then fine. All I'm saying is you will be able to expand your horizon in terms of tunes.

And I'm sure Onkel would agree he would not trade his 8 keyed in for a keyless. In fact, I don't know of one flute player who would, unless their keyed flute is not a good player for some reason. However, I know of plenty keyless players who would love to have a keyed flute, often prevented either by long waiting lists or high expense.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:24 pm

Edited to get to the point.

Sorry, I've got flu.
I'll just continue to ignore this guy.

Cork · Post by **Cork** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:03 pm

jim stone wrote:...Regarding your latest "I haven't seen you post a clip" challenge -- posting clips is, or should be, fun, and interesting,...Unfortunately the idea has a dark side,...It threatens to make something competitive of our music...

Please, Jim, get to the point, and then get off of it, as your posts can be incredibly windy, and no less love to you, brother!

Yeah, we engineers can be like that, to a point, direct.

And, see my post on that point, clips, from last year, please.

After all, perhaps we flute players could be a competitive lot, eh?