How to: "the finger bounce" technique on Seamus' t

Steven · Post by **Steven** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:44 am

I think Seamus Egan kind of has his own grip. The left hand seems to be a pretty standard Rockstro-type grip. The right hand, however, is something else. He does keep his fingers very straight, but I'm pretty sure he uses the pads of his fingers. I have no idea how he does it and still has his thumb anywhere near the flute. Must have funny-shaped hands or something. It's really something to see in concert, though -- man do those fingers move fast!

Steven

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:08 am

From what I've seen, Seamus has his own half & half- style. Which is why I think it's another case of whatever works depending on your hand size, finger length, flute hole size, barrel weight, Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle or whatever

... I've noticed that my left hand generally hangs out somewhere between classical and piper's, but since I've gone Pratten my right hand is more flat-fingered. Sometimes I use my fingerpads .... but overall, I like the piper's a LOT more for bounces (plus slides & shading notes); I find keeping my fingers relatively flat helps a lot there.

IMO, the most important thing is to hold the flute in a way that causes the least tension, because otherwise you'll hurt yourself or at best, your playing will be all "crunchy" & mechanical-sounding (this also applies to your embouchure -- it's good to do a self-check regularly and make sure you're not pushing too hard against your lower jaw -- or letting the flute drift off it, either).

It's a funny thing, this combination of strength/tension & balance/relaxation, but it seems to be THE most important thing, as with so many other disciplines like tennis, golf, even horsey stuff like dressage ..... making something seem effortless takes a LOT of work!

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:14 am

Oh, and one other thing: never underestimate the value of your right thumb. The better you balance the flute on that, the easier your left-hand work is.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:00 am

I have the MadForTrad flute tutor and watched a couple of his videos on that this morning. I agree he seems to use a grip all his own, his right hand is definitely flat-fingered but seems too far back to be true piper's grip, looks like still mainly using fingerpads, left hand is definitely fingerpad but left wrist is bent at a sharp angle which argues against Rockstro, where you want your wrists as straight as you can keep them.

Considering the way he plays, I'd say his grip definitely works well for him.

You do have to find a way that works for you, rather it has a name or not. I started using Rockstro several years ago because my hands were hurting when I'd play, at the time I didn't realize the grip I was evolving toward was Rockstro...didn't know, didn't care, just knew that it worked for me.

--James

Eivind · Post by **Eivind** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:49 pm

Well,
I checked out that Wynne album cover, here:
http://www.john-wynne.com/albumlaunch.htm

And I definitely see the difference. The first days of owning a flute (just some weeks ago

, I of course experimented a bit with finding a way to hold it. I still do it to some extent, but I have sort of landed on what may be some "hybrid" grip with bent left-hand fingers (like Rockstro), and pretty flat right-hand fingers. It feels good, though it is very difficult to move the LH fingers.

In the beginning, I kinda ditched this grip since I almost could not move the LH at all... but with a day or two of practice I realized it would become better. I just dont know HOW much better it will get

Moving the 2nd (index) finger and the 3rd finger is a real pain. In particular the 2nd, as the fleshy part of where it is connected to the palm supports the flute. So the finger gets "crooked" in a very awkward position. And it doesn't at all seems to lend itself to any snappy motion...that's SOOO much easier with flat fingers.

I know what you are likely to respond ("practice, practice, pra..."), but besides that; are there any particular tips to give, things to experiment with to perhaps free those fingers a little and allow them to ease up?

Oh, and thanks for blowing the dust off this thread again

E.

mukade · Post by **mukade** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:23 am

I tried the finger bounce after watching Seamus' CD, and I found the least fleshy parts of the finger produce a sound that is closer to Seamus' .

I usually play with my finger pads, but if I need a more stacatto effect I extend my fingers a little, and hit the hole with the lower part of the pad, close to the joint. This produces a much crisper sound, and it is easier to get a short, fast bounce.

I haven't read much about finger articulation here. Does anyone else change their finger style to suit the music?

Eivind · Post by **Eivind** » Sat Apr 10, 2004 11:09 am

Mukade,

I'll be answering questions about finger ornamentation in 5 years or so. Meanwhile, I'm ordering the Egan tutorial...
Thanks for another interesting thread, guys!

E.

BTW, for those of you who dont have the Solas live DVD, it's highly recommended...a couple of the sets they play there are worth the price of the entire disc alone :d

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Sun Apr 11, 2004 7:00 am

I don't think John Wynne's grip is one I'd like to have. It's not the style of grip that is likely to be recomended by a teacher. He holds his flute with pipers grip and he often has the flute head resting on his right shoulder (he's a leftie player). It works for him, but if I were to play like that, I'd have a really sour neck after just 15 minutes of playing. Check out the video clips at http://www.custysmusic.com/mall/CustysT ... ession.htm . You'll find John to the left if you scroll down a bit. Really awkward grip, but terrific playing.

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:31 am

At the risk of sounding like a broken record ...

(scratch, scratch, fzzzzzzztttt)

.... Repositioning my RH thumb was, and continues to be (because I forget from time to time), a huge epiphany for me. It's amazing how much having your right thumb in the place that best suits your flute's weight & balance can free up your left hand.

OK, sorry, but I think this is a biggie that rarely, if ever, gets covered and it's made a huge difference in my LH agility, esp. for nasty things like C rolls. Not to mention reducing that insidious desire to drop the flute onto my shoulder when I'm tired.