boxwood and flute mold

[an seanduine]

Peter, your problem is making me dredge up past mycological information from my past as a mushroom cultivator. No not that kind, rather shii-take. Your problem is caused by members of the Lachrymans family. Probably Merulius or Serpulans which are the common forms of "wood-rot". The spores were probably already in the wood, just waiting for a suitable environment: warm and moist and dark.
I am not sure how to remove the stains already there. . .they were caused by lignicolus enzymes produced by the fungi, produced to "digest" the cellulose and lignins in the wood. If they are on the surface they may be cleanable. If a bit deeper in the wood, not so much.
UV is a thought, but not quite to the mark. A very dilute solution of hydrogen peroxide would be much more effective. Most naturally occurring peroxide is created by UV falling on water anyway, and the UV would need to be fairly energetic to do more than kill living mycelia (fungus cells) and still may not kill the spores.
Most commonly available pharmaceutical hydrogen peroxide runs about 3 percent by volume. At a dilution of ten or fifteen parts to one, the solution will readily kill and inhibit the mold spores from further growth and not act as a "bleach". Periodically swabbing out the head with such a solution will prevent further growth. I am, however, at a loss to advise you on any stain removal.
Yours,
molding away for a response,
Bob

edited 1 time for spelling

[dow]

I will check out the lamps, I thought about mirrors, but would a reflected light still have the UV powerful enough to kill the mold?

Beats me. Try it out on a vampire. If he bursts into flame, then I'd think it would work fine.

[Maihcol]

I was only joking about the mirrors, Jon!

I don't know how well UV light would work in there, what with the spores bedded into the wood - might kill the worst of it and make it easier to remove more of it by polishing I suppose. Once the worst of it has been removed then if the bore is kept swabbed and oiled any mold spores in there won't be able to get going.

Garry

[kkrell]

Hmmm, I wonder about the UV lights dentists use to cure composite fillings.

[I.D.10-t]

Problem with UV is that the mold needs to be exposed to the light. Cracks, groves, etc. prevent this. 70% EtOH is often used to sterilize, but I don't know what it would do to the oils in the wood. The mentioned H2O2 solution also sounds good.

[dunnp]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the reply. Is it really this. Sounds a bit extreme for a bit of blackness in the headjoint:
If it is it must be gotten rid of and fast.

Merulius lachrymans grows very profusely when once established on damp wood, producing snowy white mycelial mats from which glistening yellow or lilac coloured moisture drops usually exude. It requires rather constant conditions of temperature and humidity for its growth and thrives best in unventilated places where the air is quite still. Wood decayed by the fungus is pale brown in colour, and becomes broken up into large brick shaped pieces as it dries and shrinks. The decayed wood is easily crumbled to powder between the fingers. Fruit-bodies are formed in shapes somewhat resembling pancakes on horizontal surfaces, but may form shelves on vertical surfaces. The surface of the fruit-bodies is tough and wrinkled, and on it millions of rusty red spores are formed.

The blackness in both flutes has gotten only slightly darker over a period of a few years the wood does not seem at all soft or rotted?

Looking at antique boxwood flutes in a quick google search (where lighting looks like it can be trusted to see {inside} the flute)
this is common in the headjoint particularly unlined ones. In certain pictures you can clearly see darkness in the wood below embouchure even when looking in the tone holes the wood looks clean. Hard to gain much from pictures though.

[an seanduine]

Peter, I didn't mean to 'spook' you. No, the wood is not "rotten", but may in fact have a microscopic process occurring involving Lachrymans. Since the color is black, my guess would be more likely Serpulans. While the textbook description of a fully involved infestation is correct. . .it doesn't really apply here. The "invasion" of any of the wood rotters (lignicolous fungi) is accomplished one cell at a time. My knowledge of both Serpulans and Merulius is in the category of DAMHIKT (that is, Don't Ask Me How I Know This,i.e. boat ownership). A fully involved timber will exhibit all the stigma you outlined. . .but the problems start small. . .microscopically. I've never seen a fruiting body for Merulius 'in the Wild', but I have seen one for Serpulans. Ugly as Sin.
The infestation occurs in successive waves, depending on available moisture. First a spore germinates and starts invading cells. When available moisture is removed or below a certain threshold, the mycelial cells die back, but generally will fruit leaving behind additional spores. The next time conditions are favorable, the spores germinate and advance. The conditions where a true mycelial mat forms, along with fruiting bodies, are ideal conditions, nearly laboratory perfect conditions. Technically I guess Lachrymans is a Fungi Perfecti
since it can form these fruiting bodies, but it seldom does. It is unlike Shii-take or Oyster Mushrooms which are true Fungi Perfecti which must form fully developed 'fruiting bodies' to generate spores. Lachrymans is one of those transitional types which also shares the ability to generate spores on a microscopic level like all true molds (Fungi Imperfecti). The 'gold standard' would be to take a culture, but this strikes me as excessive, and verges on destructive testing. . .taking even a miniscule shaving from a head joint is not a good idea!
Generally Lachrymans shows itself in light colored woods by forming dark spots or blotches when the conditions are right, and germination occurs. When the conditions no longer favor growth, the 'mold' dies back. However, more spores have been generated.
The blotches or spots would only show microscopic damage to the cell walls, but the whole area of infestation would show the discoloration. Which is why I suggested using a dilute solution of peroxide as a prophylactic. Even if the discoloration is bacterial in origin
the peroxide would also work.

Bob

[m31]

but would a reflected light still have the UV powerful enough to kill the mold?

It would be a function of the mirror's metal coating (reflectance) and the transmittance of the glass (lime?). And how would you get even illumination?

I guess you could always try a tanning bed .

[Doc Jones]

Well I hope you guys are happy.

I had a nightmare last night that all the flutes in my shop were covered fuzzy blue mold. And I hadn't even read the thread...just saw the title as I was cruising by yesterday! My sub-conscious was apparently more interested in the topic than the rest of me.

Doc

[Denny]

smurf mold is the worst

[an seanduine]

Doc, get back to me if any of your Delrin tooters had mold on them. . .
We could probably ride that to some sort of patent. . .or prize

Bob

[dunnp]

I also had a flute nightmare bout the flutes crumbling when I lent them to another player to try.
I went to B and Q today and picked up things I thought might help.
I started with an non scented eco product safe for you safe for your wood somesuch that looks like baby wipes
and a good deal of gunge is coming out without heavy cleaning
From my initial cleaning this appears to be more of a dirt and gunge problem caused by my breath (Drinking and smoking)
while playing rather than a real mold situation. Not positive there is no mold. It doesn't
smell like mold but more like tobacco. Good thing I quit.
Tomorrow I will break out the dowel and a non scratch pad and some type of cleaning
solution. Thanks again, Pat

[Gordon]

I also had a flute nightmare bout the flutes crumbling when I lent them to another player to try.
Pat

Well, don't let it bother you. To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a flute is just a flute.

[plunk111]

Oddly enough, my ~170-year-old Firth, Hall, and Pond boxwood is quite dark on the inside and I think it's been that way for about 160 years! Are we beating deceased equines here?

[Chiffed]

Sun shining out your bore?

I missed something.

Peroxide is a less-toxic alternative to the old standby Borax. Thanks for the tip. As a prevention, I've been putting a couple drops of tea-tree oil in cases that sit closed for long stretches; the fumes tend to keep fungussy stuff at bay. Reminds me: definitely time to check on all those closed-up cases at home and school.