Oiling Wooden Flutes & Whistles

[JayDoc]

Well, I can see this is a controversial question. Rama, that article was awesome--I would commend it to other readers--written by a chemist (and unfortunately for C&F, with reference to recorders, but, hey, they're made of wood...), it really explained well the chemistry and some of the alternatives.

As for the rest, it would appear that minds (most likely, reasonable ones) can differ. I'd sum it up to say that one should do what the maker recommends (which I have noticed, varies, hence my original question) with respect to each instrument. There would appear to be no "correct" anwer agreed widely by all, and one certainly would want to preserve one's warranty.

I don't mean to end the discussion, because I'm learning from each view expressed. As with many questions, the "truth," if there is such a thing, no doubt is found among the various views. So further views would be welcome, as far as I'm concerned.

Many thanks,
Jaydoc

[Denny]

I don't mean to end the discussion

been goin' on fer years....not to worry

[psychodonald]

Denny's right, this topic has been discussed many times on this site. However, always good to get different opinions; it has been an interesting discussion. Julia, at one point, I decided to try to obtain "pharmaceutical grade" almond oil and went to several drug stores near my home and asked the pharmacist and they all look at me like I was nuts (no reference to Almonds). Now, I live in the Western United States and assume that we are fairly up to date on most things, but bottom line, they had no clue what I was talking about when I asked for "pharmaceutical grade almond oil." I've gone to various seminars, clinics and such and have heard people recommend all kinds of goofy stuff from Olive Oil to what ever. I even know one quite well respected pipe player that mixes his own combination of oils and says its the best thing since sliced bread and Diet Coke.

I resolved the whole issue for myself, following a period of intense study, and took Casey's suggestion and ordered "Bore Oil." Haven't any idea what's in it, the lable never gives the break down of the ingredients, it's just "Bore Oil." (personally, I think that "Bore Oil" is made up of "know it all" indiviuals who show up at these damn clinics and seminars that I've been attending). I've used the stuff for quite some time and I oil my bag pipes with it as well as my flutes. I've got stuff made of Blackwood, Rock Maple, Coco Bolo (or how ever you spell it) ,Ebony and Box Wood. It has never been sticky nor does it stink. I don't glop it on, just a thin coat, then lightly wipe off the exterior. Seems to work really well as far as I know and I don't think it's doing damage to the wood, to the best of my knowledge. Nothing has split, bent or warped to date and I live in what most would regard as a harsh, dry climate. Even makes your hands feel soft and keeps that area around your thumb nails from splitting during the winter months (man, that hurts). Tell you what though, when oil is sticky or stinks, I don't think I would want to put it on something that's very expensive or is near my nose. Seems like this Bore Oil absorbs and I'm thnking that's a good thing in terms of protecting the wood. Good luck. Don.

[david_h]

In the U.K the pharmacy (always I think) and health food shop (certainly my local one) Sweet Almond Oil is marked "B.P." for British Pharmacopeia. In the USA is it "Oleum Amygdalae Expressum (U. S. P.)" ? Stored refrigerated and with a vitamin E capsule added it seems to last for months without going rancid. However, a cloth used to wipe it off a flute can smell foul in a week or two, so I guess the same could happen for any left in corners on a flute. Just my experience.

[Julia Delaney]

I have almond oil that is a few years old. It doesn't smell at all. I put some vitamin E in it - as has been mentioned - and store most of it it in the freezer and put what I use often in a small bottle that I keep in the coldest part of the frig. I only oil my flutes a few times a year now. I used to do it more often but I really don't feel a need to. You can see when a flute is dry. The grain becomes pronounced and you can see that the bore loses it's shine (assuming it ever had one).
I haven't ever liked bore oil -- whatever that is. Does it come from the oil glands of the bore? Squeezed from bore nuts? I felt that it dulled the flute in some way. It feels to me like motor oil rather than, as someone suggested, an edible oil. Really, if you play the flute every day there's less need to oil it frequently. But some people enjoy oiling the flute and discussing the best oil for that purpose.
I've read somewhere that Sam Murray, known to make a pretty good flute, doesn't think a timber flute needs to be oiled.

[Aanvil]

I've switched to Jojoba oil for over two years now.

It's actually not an oil but a natural liquid wax ester that comes from the nut/seed of the Jojoba plant.

It doesn't get sticky or polymerize.

Wood loves it, sucks it right up and its naturally fungicidal.

Your skin will enjoy it, its hypoallergenic and it won't kill you if you get some on your lips.

Its rather resistant to rancidity too.

I've been making my own thread/cork/joint grease with it by a mixture of Jojoba and Beeswax.

Beeswax has minor antibacterial properties so its a perfect combo.

[psychodonald]

Well, I just spoke to another expert who says that he knows this guy who knew this other guy and that guy's brother-in-law has a Ph.d in chemistry and he says that "Bore Oil" is nothing more than Mineral Oil and it really isn't effective in oiling and protecting wood; with of course, one exception, that being a specific product called Doc's Bore Oil, which also happens to be quite expensive. Who would have ever guessed???? Well, being a natural skeptic and very cautious, my sales resistance hit an all time high and I only ordered two bottles (vials), hell this stuff is so great it isn't put into just ordinary bottles, it's put into "vials." The Doc's Bore Oil is supposed to penetrate into the wood on a molecular level where other "Bore Oils" aren't able to for some reason unknown to me at the present time. And no, I don't think it comes from Bore glands or Bore Nuts---Geeez, I had to lay down for a half hour after I read that one .

[Denny]

Some people will let just anything penetrate their molecules now, wouldn't they!

That's even worse than that dude from LA with the JoJo stuff

[jemtheflute]

"viles"? You've been reading too much Stephen Donaldson!

I think you mean "vials" or "phials", being alternative spellings of the same word, meaning a(ny) very small bottle, nowt more......

What I don't understand in these perennial discussions of flute oiling is some folks antipathy towards "mineral oils" - sure, some petrochemicals can be quite nasty, but others are not - Vaseline is commonly applied to skin with no general ill effects, for example, and I heard a radio programme a while back about some Texan oil well owner/oil connoisseur who used certain crudes from certain wells as salad dressing! Plus I believe there are perhaps some non-petrochemical oils that may be extracted or fabricated from other minerals???? (Not too sure about that - is parafin a petrochemical? - I know it is extracted from a special kind of shale and is not a distillate of crude oil.....).

Perhaps some of the mineral oil objectors would care to elucidate?

FWIW (and no, I don't know the chemistry - am very open to being educated....), I would think that an inert and non-polymerising oil would be a much better thing to use than any plant oil, edible or otherwise. Let's remember that petrochemical oils are still organic chemicals, ultimately plant-derived.

FWIW, as I have often written, I use a proprietary woodwind "Bore Oil" (currently one supplied under the Yamaha brand, previously a Boosey and Hawkes one) the ingredients of which I do not know, but which certainly does not seem to harm either my flutes nor my skin when I use it (not that frequently), but I do notice the usually commented upon improvement in response of a freshly (internally) oiled flute. It doesn't seem to build up any residue - I apply it with a large feather or a pull through. I have (and have also written about this) done several nasty de-gunking jobs on flutes that have clearly regularly been doused in linseed oil - yuck! Don't do that!

[psychodonald]

Thanks Jem for the correction, I'm the worlds worst when it comes to spelling.

[cavefish]

i am a full blown lover of Almond oil- if kept right in a dark glass and a dark area and with a 5 mm of E oil will last for years and this is a proven fact, no particulates or oil exchange on a level base--- but i also use Bore doctor- it has a shelve life of ten years----- and you can get it fro WWAB -for 122mm for 30 .000 if you play
it right -----------and it will last for years------ ----also his slippery elm bark grease is awesome-----------------------me and another friend just did an extensive oil debate in the flute section ------ good reading--- as far as using fresh linseed you really need yo know the properties and how it affects the wood ------------

[talasiga]

I have used almond oil in the extremes of Australia and India.
I do not use vitamin E in almond oil because I know that almond oil itself is a source of the vitamin.
I have never known almond oil to leave a sticky residue because I have always used it minimallly.
I am not aware of almond oil "polymerising" but I have noticed a sticky effect if a flute has been recently oiled with linseed and you then oil it again with almond oil. That is a silly action leading to a sticky fall out.
I have never known almond oil (food grade) to smell foul. I have used it for nearly 35 years including in my younger years when I did massage therapy.

That has been a series of 5 I statements.

[pflipp]

I have been advised by some makers I respect not to oil at all.

I wonder if those makers are the ones that seal their flute in any other (more permanent) way themselves?

I have read about bamboo flutes being sealed with shellac, and Chas wrote in another thread that "recorders made from pearwood or fruitwood are generally soaked in paraffin". I guess that any such initial treatment would put a whole different angle on later maintenance. (And then there's also the hardwood/ fruitwood difference.)

[cavefish]

I have used almond oil in the extremes of Australia and India.
I do not use vitamin E in almond oil because I know that almond oil itself is a source of the vitamin.
I have never known almond oil to leave a sticky residue because I have always used it minimallly.
I am not aware of almond oil "polymerising" but I have noticed a sticky effect if a flute has been recently oiled with linseed and you then oil it again with almond oil. That is a silly action leading to a sticky fall out.
I have never known almond oil (food grade) to smell foul. I have used it for nearly 35 years including in my younger years when I did massage therapy.

That has been a series of 5 I statements.

it is one of the best carriers oils around---- walnut is good too-------a little thicker though

[jemtheflute]

What I don't understand in these perennial discussions of flute oiling is some folks antipathy towards "mineral oils" - sure, some petrochemicals can be quite nasty, but others are not - Vaseline is commonly applied to skin with no general ill effects, for example, and I heard a radio programme a while back about some Texan oil well owner/oil connoisseur who used certain crudes from certain wells as salad dressing! Plus I believe there are perhaps some non-petrochemical oils that may be extracted or fabricated from other minerals???? (Not too sure about that - is parafin a petrochemical? - I know it is extracted from a special kind of shale and is not a distillate of crude oil.....).

Perhaps some of the mineral oil objectors would care to elucidate?

FWIW (and no, I don't know the chemistry - am very open to being educated....), I would think that an inert and non-polymerising oil would be a much better thing to use than any plant oil, edible or otherwise. Let's remember that petrochemical oils are still organic chemicals, ultimately plant-derived.

Deafening silence on this! Is anyone going to present a rational and scientific rather than alarmist/prejudiced explanation/argument?