Having trouble

[ImNotIrish]

Hi Diane.
I have struggled with this same issue for many years. I am basically self-taught, aside from the occasional class or workshop. I have played the whistle and flute for many years, and while I progressed, it has been at a snail's pace. Three years ago I got bitten by the banjo bug. Actually, it was a couple years earlier than that. I was also bitten by the fiddle bug. I had friends who played these instruments and well, the just got to me. I started dabbling with the fiddle and took a few initial lessons from a classically trained fiddler who recently got into Irish music. I played, but sporadically. At the same time, I picked up the banjo and was really taken by it's percussive nature. I started play the banjo and would let the fiddle sit for longer and longer periods. Now, I play the banjo for at least 45 minutes a day (during my lunch period at school), and use my time at home to learn tunes by ear on the flute and play through the ones I already know, or break apart difficult sections, etc. I have also started to take lessons on the fiddle again and am trying to incorporate the fiddle into the lunch routine so as to play it daily. I am finding that the banjo has helped me to figure out tunes on the fiddle (same fingerings (sort of) and the string tunings help with the ear training and interval recognition). Anyway, to echo some of the other contributors, follow what you have a passion for. Use the knowledge you have gained from one instrument and apply it to others. It does become a little frustrating making time for all of them, but go with the flow and passion of the moment. It's not a bad idea to take a break from an instrument for a while. Gives one time to reflect on one's playing.

Now,
get back to playing!
Arbo

[crookedtune]

I also agree with Cork's suggestion. I play a number of instruments, and have been playing music in some form for about forty years. I've only been at Irish flute for a couple of years. On a good day -- when my mind is right -- I can play good music on any of them. On a bad day -- when I'm lazy, distracted, or generally "off" -- I can't do anything worthwhile on any of them.

I actually feel that being a multi-instrumentalist is a good thing for me. I often get an idea on one, and say "I wonder how that would sound on the ..........!". It keeps things fresh.

The worst mistake you can make is to constantly play the stuff you already know. The way to get better is to try new things, stretch, and (most of all) PLAY WITH OTHER PEOPLE!.

Good luck!

[Il Friscaletto]

I too have been unfaithful to my flute, though not in the extreme. I borrowed my mother's guitar because my wife sings and I though it would be nice if I cold play a some simple accompaniment. My aspirations on the guitar are pretty low, but it is certainly addictive and very much fun. Not only that, but I am learning more about music by playing the guitar. It's also helping a bit with my "singing".

The flute still commands about 90% of my music time.

[Il Friscaletto]

If I can also add, it can really work out practice-wise for you to play both a wind and a stringed instrument. For instance, I tend to eat dinner shortly after getting home, then have to wait for at least an hour before playing the flute. Now that I have a guitar, I can play around with that while my food is digesting.

:)

[Cork]

...If anyone has some advice or encouragement regarding this flow thing, I'd be very grateful indeed...

It seems there's a real temptation to begin a new, unfamiliar piece of music, and then attempt to play it through, from start to finish, in tune and on time, and it also appears that there are those rare players who can do just that, but then there are the rest of us, myself included, who must work at it.

So, what to do?

Well, one proven technique is to break a new piece of music into many little pieces, as bite sized chunks, of maybe two measures. Work on the first two measures until they are comfortable, then work on the next two measures until they are comfortable, and then try putting them together, to make a sequence of four comfortable measures. Then, in a similar way, keep adding two more measures at a time. Eventually, you'll have a "string" of measures, and a complete piece of music!

Now, when it comes to the flow of the music, wind instruments (pipes excepted) are at a natural disadvantage, simply because a player must momentarily stop, to breathe. Here, however, the general rule is to not breathe on the beat, as it's the beat which keeps the flow going! So, try breathing either just before, or just after, the beat, depending on circumstances. It can also be helpful to breathe more frequently, to take smaller, shallower breaths more often, at least until you know a piece so well that you know just how often you must breathe. A shallow breath simply takes less time than a deep breath, and, as it happens, in the world of flute playing there are some relatively long, technical passages which simply demand a frequent series of quick, shallow breaths, in order for the flow of the music to remain alive.

Edited, a little :-)

[gododdin]

Thanks Cork - good advice there - I think I'm going to have to be brave and put a clip up sometime soon for appraisal/criticism...

[Guinness]

Since I acquired a mandolin I've had trouble motivating myself to keep up with my flute. I really suck at flute and whistle. My embouchure is only getting worse. I suck at the mandolin too, but it is so much fun. It is nice to play an instrument without sitting up straight or worrying about breathing. I don't know what to do. I need to focus or else I'll never be a good musician.

Just wanted to check in and complain. Thanks for your time.

Mando is sweet isn't it? Tone production seems so much easier than the flute and the finger spacing is a breeze, at least for the melodies of the Irish repertoire. It is physically less demanding, at the outset. While the learning curve isn't quite as steep, mastering the mandolin probably requires the same dedication as the flute. So my beautiful +100 year old Gibson A sits there gathering dust because I just don't have the time to take it to the next level...say, like this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI7wmMKaz6c

[Akiba]

My 2 cents, SB,

I basically stopped playing flute for decades because I was not interested in either classical or jazz which I had played when younger. I then developed my singing (decent) and my guitar playing (chord banger) and played what was in my head--Beatles tunes, 60's stuff I liked, 90's pop/rock. Played bass (not good) in a band. I only came back to the flute after discovering Irish flute.

That is to say, I play what's in my head and what's interesting, compelling and gratifying for me. You'll always develop as a musician no matter what you play or, to a certain extent, even if you don't play at all through listening and thinking. Life is too short to do something that's not gratifying or compelling.

jason

[jim stone]

Since I acquired a mandolin I've had trouble motivating myself to keep up with my flute. I really suck at flute and whistle. My embouchure is only getting worse. I suck at the mandolin too, but it is so much fun. It is nice to play an instrument without sitting up straight or worrying about breathing. I don't know what to do. I need to focus or else I'll never be a good musician.

Just wanted to check in and complain. Thanks for your time.

I think improving on flute requires, for people like myself,
deliberate practice. It's a demanding instrument.

One thing I found that helps me, anyway, is playing
at some length, maybe 20 minutes to half an hour,
with a metronome set quite slow. Playing tunes I know
well already, as well as new ones.

Flute seems to be a 'bottom up' affair. It's basic things
done simply and well that make one good. Very slow,
sustained practice, improves one from the bottom up.

Also if there is something that is a difficult or rough,
playing it very slowly, repeatedly, is quite helpful.

Also in tunes there are intervals between notes
and interesting fingerings. Exploring these slowly.

At some point this can become very pleasant, so that
one welcomes difficulties. Each tune is a universe
with it's own underlying structure, and one explores
it on the flute, one breaks down complex passages
into simple parts and investigates the parts.

I think it is very good to practice scales and arpeggios,
especially when warming up. To begin each practice
session playing basics, and nothing is too basic.
And this includes long tones. The slow playing
will help embouchure too.

Always return to the basics.

Finally I think playing a higher pitched flute, e.g.
one in A or G, is very good for developing embouchure.
It does what overtone practice does, more or less,
but you play tunes and that's even better.

Always it seems the people who are best at an instrument
play it in a very simple way, the basics have become
smooth and definite, and I think the sort of practice
I've described helps that. FWIW. The results are
worth the labor.

[sbfluter]

Thank you. I'm glad you all understand.

Part of the reason I pick up the mandolin so much is that we have an old-time jam once a week and an Irish jam twice a month. The Irish jam sometimes gets canceled. The old-time music is easier to pick up by ear on the fly. No dirty looks from across the room when you try to learn the tune while people are playing. If all else fails, I can just strum the open A string all night and people are fine with that. They just want you to have fun and be a part of.

Irish music is like my stern piano teacher. Don't break too many rules. Watch out for so-and-so. He doesn't tolerate this-and-that. Maybe it's the association with my mean piano teacher and the exacting world of classical music that is making me gravitate to the mandolin.

Thing is, I like to hear Irish music better than old-time. I don't even play old-time at home on my mandolin. It's all Irish all the time. I just can't play the mandolin well enough to bring to the session. So I have to keep up the flute so I can get my Irish fix and enjoy the session.

[Doc Jones]

I am a jack of all trades master of none musician. I play an embarrassingly large number of instruments. I am nothing like serious about any of them but fairly good a few of them.

It's all about time. If you dink around long enough, you'll eventually get fairly good. This method takes years but works.

If you actually want to be very, very good you'll have to practice and whatnot (or so I've heard).

I should get serious. Sadly, I am not a serious enough person to do so.

Doc

[lazyleft]

Firstly I would not worry about playing at sessions. Sessions can be very enjoyable as a non-participant ( in the sense of not being a player ) and there is no need to rush into playing yourself. There are a lot of benefits to session playing but also a lot of pitfalls even for mature musicians. Session playing can create a pressure to improve performance but for the wrong reasons. Music shoud never become a competition sport or an activity that attempts to glorify the ego. Real music doesn't come from that place. Sessions can encourage these kinds of tendencies - which exist in all of us. In turn we lose sight of why we started to play to begin with. Also you should not look for easy ways out simply to be a part of something and be able , in some fashion, to play along.
I played mandolin a long time ago but only for a short while. Never took it too seriously though. My limited experience of other instruments compared to playing flute or even whistle, is that some of them appear to offer more instant gratification. There is little instant gratification to be had from a flute. That being said, the apparently easier instruments will only seem easier for a short time. So long as one has a reasonably good quality instrument, the struggle to make good music is ultimately never with the instrument ( whatever it may happen to be ) but with ourselves. You have to choose to play what you most love.
I agree with the person who earlier advised you to get rid of the mandolin. It sounds as though it is simply confusing you and getting in the way of progress ( on either instrument ). Also if you are relatively new to the traditional music of Ireland, and were not exposed to it from an early age, you have to understand that complete and total immersion in the music is imperative if you are serious about becoming even a mediocre player. Your problems with grasping the 'flow' of the music come entirely from your lack of familiarity with it.....unless you are a chronic chain smoker like myself!!! At a basic level, knowing when to breath for instance, is actually quite instinctual. You have heard it done countless times, it is part of the fabric of the music, and that 'technique' has been absorbed, and learnt, as naturally as learning to speak as a child. Later on you try to refine things further, just as we may or may not do with speech. Not everybody speaks the Queens English or Cockney rhyming slang...but most of us have a basic grasp of things. As such you may seriously want to consider not only giving up the mandolin but also your interest in other forms of music - for awhile at least. A kind of cross-contamination can occur if you are not strongly grounded in the music.
Lastly, always constantly remind yourself of what it is you love...what it was that drew you to the flute initially. The strength of your love removes all sense of your practice being soul destroying drudgery....just a few thoughts for what they are worth.
Thanks
Nate

[sbfluter]

If I were to follow the spirit of your advice, Nate, I would quit the flute and stick to the mandolin, not the other way around. I enjoy playing with other people. I enjoy the social aspect of it. Playing at home by myself is not very satisfying. Playing to recordings is boring and frustrating because almost none of them play back in the key they tunes are actually played in.

We have only 2 sessions a month. I can play old-time once a week or more. I should quit Irish and focus on old-time. But I like Irish and I like the flute.

So I guess I will just soldier on, bad as I am. Maybe eventually I will play something well. I'm hoping so because someday, when I'm homeless and living in my van, I will need a means of making money.

[jim stone]

I play whistle in our old time sessions here in St. Louis
and sometimes flute too. It works very well, especially
whistle. People are glad I'm there and, as you say,
the tunes are easy to learn. If the folks you are dealing
with are as laid back as you describe, they won't mind
(I've never personally had trouble playing these
instruments in any old time session).

Old time tunes sound
great on our instruments.
If you haven't tried it already, you might
take your whistle to the next session,
or maybe first learn some tunes
at home. Piece of cake.
And not without its musical rewards.

[Cork]

...Irish music is like my stern piano teacher. Don't break too many rules. Watch out for so-and-so. He doesn't tolerate this-and-that...

No!

Screw your piano teacher. After all, there never was a piano in proper tune, for equal temperament sucks, plain and simple.

And, never mind "so-and-so", for perhaps he could be due for a rectal examination. Again, screw your piano teacher!

Now, and my speaking as a Baroque student, as well, I'm here to suggest to you that ITM simply calls for individual interpretation, that is, as music it becomes just what you, and not me or anybody else, could make of it.

So, while a particular tune could be recognized as being just that tune, apparently there also could be an individual, your, license to improvise, ad hoc.

My having been here at the C&F board just long enough to appreciate your abilities, Diane, I sense that you have great musical potential.

Never mind the technicalities, and just follow your heart.

I have a high expectation of you.

You have what it takes.

:-)