hard d and playing louder on the low notes

[Chiffed]

Another piece of advice that helped me for all wind instruments:

The instrument doesn't start at the mouthpiece. It doesn't start with the embouchure. It starts at the bottom of your air column, somewhere behind your navel, and extends to the back of the room you're playing in.

Using this mental image, bell tones come out strong, and throat tones (b, c, c#) that can be thin will project.
I'm a pretty jaded sort, so visualisation and touchy-feely stuff isn't usually in my pedagogy. This 'big instrument' theory, however, does better things for my tone and projection than any amount of mechanicspeak.

New name for my band: Big Instrument Theory

[flutefry]

I've been playing the Irish flute for 5 months or so (a Rudall copy) and have found the low D elusive. Once in a while powerful tone reveals itself, and then runs away and hides. Last night I reminded myself of the importance of breath support (you can get the feeling by tightening your abdominal muscles while blowing, and noticing the increase in velocity of the airstream while you are doing it), and obtained quite good low notes for quite a while. I find that one needs much more breath support for the low notes, and much less for the high notes (for most beginners, it feels like one has to "blow harder" to get the high notes).

One generic hint for all tone production is to change the direction of the airstream. Sometimes this is hard to imagine or achieve, or to understand how small the differences that are effective really are. If you tip your chin towards your neck to bring your head down a little, or tip your chin away from your neck to put your head back a little you can change the direction of the airstream without changing the position of your lips. I find moving my head easier to do and control than moving lips. It's easy to overtire the lips, or force (bad), but if one just moves the head, it is easier to change the direction without inadvertently changing a bunch of other things at the same time. (Alternatively you can keep your head still and roll the flute away from you or towards you-perhaps more pleasing to look at than head bobbing). The object is to find the position of the airstream that gives a better low tone. For me, I find moving my chin away from my neck a little helps tone production for low notes. In any case the exercise makes you aware of how small changes in the direction of the air can have big effects on tone. One can also just imagine the desired result. If the centre of the embouchure hole is 12 o'clock, and the other side of the flute is 6 o'clock, then you can just imagine blowing towards 4 o'clock, or 5'oclock (or whatever), and you will notice changes in the tone as the direction of the airstream changes.

Another generic hint concerns the size of the hole in your lips. A lot depends on your teeth, jaw, and lips, but try changing the size of the hole. Smaller is usually better. More rounded, or more slit-like may be better. I usually find that when I imagine myself changing the size of the hole, that to achieve this my lips are either flattening (slit-like hole) or moving forward (rounder hole). This seems counter-intuitive, but playing high notes quietly is a very effective exercise in getting the feel for the smaller hole that produces a better tone on every note.

As others have advised, if pay attention to tone, it will come, even if it comes slowly. The trick is to create a physical memory of what the right position is for a given note, and to realize that this will change for different notes. One embouchure does not fit all.

Best,
Hugh

[dfernandez77]

A classical flute teacher can be a very good option (if no trad players are around)--but ask around for someone who plays Baroque flute--the techniques and mindset--for things like embouchure and breathing--are essentially what you want to have on an Irish flute.

Anyone know of a good teacher in the Orange County/Southern California area? I don't want to start my learning by building bad habits - know what I mean?

[John F.]

I have the same sort of problems. I rapidly become fatigued when I practice, the 'ol lips go numb, and I loose everything below F#.

Now, I've only been playing flute (and whistle!) since the end of last year, so I'm hoping things will come along in the low "D" department!

I have been working on the long, extended notes--been using this as a conditioning exercise--but until I'm able to push the low "D" and "E" around with regularity, I'm finding my ability to learn tunes is being hampered.... ...And practicing scales just blows (if you'll all pardon the pun)!

[michael_coleman]

A classical flute teacher can be a very good option (if no trad players are around)--but ask around for someone who plays Baroque flute--the techniques and mindset--for things like embouchure and breathing--are essentially what you want to have on an Irish flute.

Anyone know of a good teacher in the Orange County/Southern California area? I don't want to start my learning by building bad habits - know what I mean?

Try Nicolas Buckmelter of Ciunas. They all live together in an old house in Fullerton and he's a very good flute player. I think he does give lessons.
http://www.ciunas.net/bandbiosnic.htm

[bradhurley]

A few people have mentioned the low E being weak...that's normal and there's not much you can do to strengthen it. When you look at the tone hole for low E you can see that it's the smallest hole on the flute, so that note is always going to sound a bit pinched compared with the others. If you have a keyed flute, you can beef up the E considerably by opening the D#/Eb key, which will also sharpen it a bit so you'll have to lip down to blow it into tune. On my flute when I do that the E is almost as powerful as the bottom D. But 99.9% of the time I don't bother and just accept the weak E; I only use the key when I'm hanging on that note for emphasis or it's the last note in a set and I want it to be strong.

[Jumbuk]

I've been playing the Irish flute for 5 months or so (a Rudall copy) and have found the low D elusive. Once in a while powerful tone reveals itself, and then runs away and hides.

I too am a relative beginner. I just discovered something last week that may be relevant, especially in light of Terry McGee's post about Bainbridge's observations.

I had the opportunity to play a Casey Burns Folk Flute for the first time. My own flute is a Sweetheart keyless, that I have been playing for just under a year. It took me ages to get a strong low D on the Sweet, and even now I have to get the sweet spot exactly right to play the D. However, on the Burns, I got a rich strong Low D right away. I found that it was pretty flexible in terms of my embouchure as well - didn't have to get it exactly right every time.

If you compare the shapes of the embouchure holes on the two flutes:

- the Burns has much thicker walls on the head joint, so the chimney is deeper
- the Burns has a slightly larger hole
- the sides of the Burns emboucher hole are slightly chamfered or flared out.

I don't know enough about flute design to know if these differences account for the marked difference between the ease of playing. Anyway, it may support Bainbridge's assertion that one size doesn't fit all.

For what it's worth, there wasa side effect to this ease of playing the low D on the Burns. I found the second octave harder to get and control on the Burns as compared to the Sweet. Also, the low D on the Burns seemed a little flat to my ear - probably the way I was blowing it.

What am I trying to say?

- the ease of getting the low notes may be partly to do with the design of your flute - a different shape embouchure hole might be easier for you

- even so, you might want to persist with the "more difficult" flute because the trade off against an easier low D might be difficulties in the second octave. In the end, you want a flute and a playing style that works in a balanced way across all notes.

[Whistlin'Dixie]

seanny, you have a Doyle flute, right?
So if it's like mine, it's two sections, unlikely to have a leak unless that cork is really worn....

Give yourself and the flute a break.
My Doyle (once I got used to it!) has the biggest low D of any of my flutes... and, the 2nd octave really sings.....
But there was a learning curve.
I think it was just me.

Stick with that flute, and you'll be proud.

M

[Hornpiper]

I played Mary's Doyle & I can vouch for the size of its low D, which is $*&%ing monstrous, but I gotta say Mary, I think your Olwell's low D is still even bigger

[Whistlin'Dixie]

Hi Ben!
Are you back in LA yet?

No, Horn-boy, I think the Doyle is bigger!
Let's get together again when you get back, and we'll have a show-down!

Anyway, I've been playing the Doyle more lately, and there is a bit of a learning curve, as there is with most flutes. I just had to get beyond that..... the flute is fairly astonishing.

[seanny]

you have a good memory - I do play a martin doyle 2-piece unkeyed with no tuning slide
i saw a teacher recently who was a player of the baroque flute - she thought my embouchure was quite good - one thing she pointed out was that if i drew back my lower jaw a bit i was able to get a stronger tone on the low notes and was less likely to go into the second octave by accident - i may have been a bit hard on myself because i was comparing myself to very experienced players

[Cathy Wilde]

Spent a few minutes with Brad's overtone/harmonics exercise last night, and oh boy, the things I started remembering, including this even more fiendish embouchure exercise from my college flute teacher ....

Start on a second octave D, ideally playing it XXX XXXX.
Blow the overtone, which should be an A, while still fingering XXX XXXX.
Blow the octave, i.e., high D, while still fingering XXX XXXX.

Then come back down from high D, trying to make it all sound as even as possible in terms of tuning and volume. Repeat exercise until you can do it easily and reasonably in tune.

<:twisted:>

THEN, if you're really feeling bold, do the same exercise throwing in a low D on the front & back end for good measure -- i.e., start on a low D, then go to second octave D then to A then to high D and back down, all the while using the XXX XXXX fingering.

<even more >

Yep, it's hard and yep, it's ugly (especially at first!), but if you want lip pushups, there ya go.

There's a similar overtone series on E and some other notes as well, but I've not tried them yet on a simple-system flute (plus I have to remember them first).

Final note: if you have several flutes around, especially flutes with different blowhole types, try it on them all. You'll find it very interesting for hunting down each flute's sweet spot in terms of overtones....not to mention locating your lip's weak spots!

Haaaaaaave fun!

[Cathy Wilde]

<snip> i may have been a bit hard on myself because i was comparing myself to very experienced players

Great players .... a blessing and a curse, huh? I sometimes wonder if I'll ever get decent, but then I have to remember who I'm comparing "decent" to -- and they're all people who make at least a bit of a living at it!

<sigh>

Hang in there, seanny, and welcome to the boat!

[Cathy Wilde]

<snip>
- the ease of getting the low notes may be partly to do with the design of your flute - a different shape embouchure hole might be easier for you

- even so, you might want to persist with the "more difficult" flute because the trade off against an easier low D might be difficulties in the second octave. In the end, you want a flute and a playing style that works in a balanced way across all notes.

That's pretty much my experience. Size and shape of blowhole affects playability & tone, but everything has a tradeoff My smallish-blowholed flutes have a brilliant high register; larger-blowholed flutes a little less so, but getting the bottom D is easier. IMO, that's part of why people find things like Hamiltons and some of the older flutes tougher to play -- they're got wee little blowholes in comparison to the most popular models of Burnses, McGees, etc.

My Murray flutes fit right in the middle of the spectrum between my Hamilton and my McGee -- the McGee's blowhole is so big two people could probably play on it, and it's got a GIANT effortless bottom D -- the Murrays' are smaller, but still more spacious than the Hamilton's -- and they require a bit more work down low but also seem to deliver more reward up higher. Meanwhile, the Hamilton just is.

So anymore, I'm starting to think it's not only a question of body style and bore dimension, but also blowhole size and shape. In fact, I'm wondering if that isn't really the biggest individual difference for a player?

(no, I still haven't scraped up the money for the new McGee smaller-blowholed headjoint yet, but hopefully after tax time!)

Anyway, just my observations to add to yours....

[Blackbeer]

Well I broke my own rule yesterday and instead of putting together my Pratten and setteling down to covering those huge holes I saw my old Samuel Barnett single key just sitting there in the humadore and seeing as though I hadn`t played it in months I picked it up instead. Now I had already decided to start on a new tune using the slowdown mode on my media player so I was breaking all kinds of self-imposed taboos. Anyway the Barnett is a very small holled flute made of cocus with quite a small blow hole. I tootled around a bit with it and was amazed, again, at its volume and harmonics. But the low D blew me away. The flute is not very thick walled and will actualy vibrate in my hand. I don`t always try for a good hard D as I guess I play a little mellower and tend to practice quitely still trying to get a better handle on the upper octives. The other thing that happened was, when I started to play along with the tune I was trying to learn I was right in tune with it and the harmonics and reedy sound that was coming from the player I was listening to was easy to achieve. Now she was playing a Rudel and Rose no tuning slide and the Barnett is the same. So I just don`t get it. I would expect to get a good hard D from the Pratten but here I was getting it from this tiny holed 19th century sweety. Anyway this has been a real interesting thread. Thanks for all the advice.

Take care

Tom