Am I just 'traditionally style-less?'

LorenzoFlute · Post by **LorenzoFlute** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:09 pm

I'm developing my own style. It's called "Porca Miseria". Our Italian friends will no doubt have a chuckle.

Indeed

Akiba · Post by **Akiba** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:18 pm

I believe in classical Indian traditional music, a student has a guru and stays and plays with that guru 24/7 for years. A cousin of mine who lived in India for years, a tabla player, said some students are literally chained to a tree, told what to practice and left there for hours till the guru comes back. Talk about using imitation and staying in the tradition to the extreme.

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:56 pm

Akiba wrote:some students are literally chained to a tree, told what to practice and left there for hours till the guru comes back.

I should claim that MT stands for Manacle-Tree. But it doesn't.

Aanvil · Post by **Aanvil** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:28 pm

MTGuru wrote:
Akiba wrote:some students are literally chained to a tree, told what to practice and left there for hours till the guru comes back.
I should claim that MT stands for Manacle-Tree. But it doesn't.

Well the Guru part fits and fits well.

I can't count the times now I've sat watching you play saying to myself "Holy cr*p, I want to play like that!"

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:00 pm

Aanvil wrote:Well the Guru part fits and fits well.

Miles to go before I sleep, Aanvil. I'm still reading the damn road signs.

Azalin · Post by **Azalin** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:21 pm

If this Guru thing could be applied to ITM, I'd gladly have Edel Fox chain me to a tree!!!

lazyleft · Post by **lazyleft** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:03 pm

If learning a style of music can loosely be compared to learning to speak a language, then the fact of a north American born and raised in North America, having a playing style that is more individual than typically regional, is neither particularly surprising nor undesirable.
Regional styles of playing are very much like regional accents and dialects. Until recent times they would have been learnt entirely naturally and unconsciously. If the majority of people in ones immediate locality play with a particular accent then obviously that is what one will tend to emmulate.
The problem these days with regional styles lies in the fact that the playing of ITM has become such a widespread phenomenon. How many members of this site were born and raised in Ireland compared to those that weren't? Also the availibility of recordings from a vast array of musicians from different backgrounds adds to the confusion, at least for those of us not born in Ireland.
I am originally a Londoner. I speak quite naturally with a particular London accent, it is not the same as other London accents. I did not try to speak the way that I do, I just do. I am also recognisable as an individual with an individual voice. There has been a great deal of ITM coming out of London but I don't think there ever was a London style of playing.
Just hit submit instead of preview!!
I have at times slavishly copied the playing of players I particularly admire. To that extent there regional styles have probably influenced my own 'generic' style of playing. I could not claim to play in a particular regional style nor do I think it nessesary in spite of the fact that I consider myself somewhat of a traditionalist. The influences on me both from recordings and from other musicians have been too widespread for the natural development of a regional style. There must be many thousands of us in the same position.

Recognising regional styles is confusing. An Englishman or Irishman quite naturally hears the nuances of speech that can be surprisingly specific in terms of origin. If a Londoner decided to speak with a Yorkshire accent it would be recognised as a ridiculous affectation. I don't think with speech or with music we ever sound quite authentic when striving for authenticity.The fact of striving for it demonstrates too clearly that we do not posess it in that particular form.
This all got a bit garbled when I hit submit by accident, but I think I made my point.
Thanks
Nate

Aanvil · Post by **Aanvil** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:05 pm

Azalin wrote:If this Guru thing could be applied to ITM, I'd gladly have Edel Fox chain me to a tree!!!

Hey smarts, talent and cutes all in one package... hand me a chain too.

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:01 pm

Akiba wrote:I believe in classical Indian traditional music, a student has a guru and stays and plays with that guru 24/7 for years. A cousin of mine who lived in India for years, a tabla player, said some students are literally chained to a tree, told what to practice and left there for hours till the guru comes back. Talk about using imitation and staying in the tradition to the extreme.

This is a rather broad brush that does not properly represent a tradition/s too broad to be brushed.

Fo example see this for possible contrast (specifically para 6):-
http://web.mac.com/lyonleifer/Site/Deve ... shwar.html

Azalin · Post by **Azalin** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:51 pm

ImNotIrish wrote:Thank you all for the input. I'm not sure what to do with it other than to stop associating my playing with ITM.

Allright, now that the storm has passed, I'd like to take the time to properly give my own answer to this, although you got a bunch of very good and interesting answers already. First of all, I don't call myself an expert, but then, if only experts were to participate in this thread, you'd feel a bit solitary...

My personal point starting from my first thread, which wasn't obvious, is that your question is too broad to be answered correctly. I prefered to be 'shocking', but I personally think having your ego 'hurt' a bit can only be a good thing in the long run. It's an open thread and open question, and all fair game I'd say.

Anyhow, you're always going to sound un-traditional to some people, or very traditional to some others. I consider myself playing very traditional music. But some of my more hardcore friends would call my tastes 'sissy ITM', more like a subclass of what they'd call ITM. There are many "old timers" I can't even listen to. Listening to Julia Clifford for more than a few minutes will give me a headache and my stress level will go up. But she's a big part of the tradition and I truly believe (or hope) that one day I'll be able to listen to her and get something in return. At the other end of the scope, I can't stand listening to the likes of McGoldrick, it just sound like a bunch of jazzy notes to my ears and it leaves me totally uninterested. I really like Catherine McEvoy's playing, she sounds very traditional to me, Roscommon/Sligo style, but with a modern touch to it. Some old timers would tell you that she's not traditional at all, I am sure. I heard many geezers say that Liz Carroll isn't traditional and doesn't have that Gnaaaa required to play good ITM, but then one of my East Clare concertina hero loves Liz Carroll!

Now, going back to your style, I find it surprising that you don't have a few ITM "heros" you're trying to emulate. Trying to emulate musicians and then add your little twists is part if it all, and I'll boldly say that those refusing to accept this *certainly* don't play ITM, even if they think they do (some meat you can jump on!). So, maybe if you immerse yourself in the music a bit more, listen to more stuff, go to festivals and open your horizons, you'd certainly find a few 'models' you'd like to follow. A few years ago I cycled around County Clare for three months, and it helped a lot. I remember watching Geraldine McNamara, Geraldine Cotter and Sean Ryan play the whistle, and be awestruck... and the list goes on. I'm not sure if you do a lot, but you learn a lot by interacting with people. Maybe you don't need this, maybe you do, I wouldn't know.

I got carried away a bit, and my post doesn't have entirely to do with your initial question, but at least I gave you a serious one

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:07 pm

Azalin wrote: ........
your question is too broad to be answered correctly. I prefered to be 'shocking', but I personally think having your ego 'hurt' a bit can only be a good thing in the long run. It's an open thread and open question, and all fair game I'd say.
..........

if the quarry is too broad to be identified, don't shoot.
your prey may be out of season .....

Akiba · Post by **Akiba** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:14 pm

talasiga wrote:
Akiba wrote:I believe in classical Indian traditional music, a student has a guru and stays and plays with that guru 24/7 for years. A cousin of mine who lived in India for years, a tabla player, said some students are literally chained to a tree, told what to practice and left there for hours till the guru comes back. Talk about using imitation and staying in the tradition to the extreme.
This is a rather broad brush that does not properly represent a tradition/s too broad to be brushed.

Fo example see this for possible contrast (specifically para 6):-
http://web.mac.com/lyonleifer/Site/Deve ... shwar.html

You really like to lob up softballs, don't you? How about this for an answer: no sh*te, Sherlock.

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:28 pm

The first few pages of this thread reminded me why I haven't been here for a few months. Then Julia Delaney's posts reminded why I used to like coming hear so much.

So, now that we're sort of back to some semblance of reasonable discussion (I hope), Az brought up a good point to Arbo. Who's playing style informs you of what is traditional? I know, Arbo, you glean from what you hear your peers do on C&F like the Breton tune you learned a few years ago off of my post on Clips-n-Snips. If it's us your listening to and learning from then it's largely our fault if you find yourself traditionally style-less.

But who makes your jaw drop, no matter how many times you've heard them? Who makes it impossible to keep your foot from tapping or your heart from aching?

While we're slinging around quotes, let me share one that I can't remember verbatim but I'll try and reproduce as faithfully as I can. Do not follow the same path as the master. Seek the same source and you will find mastery... or something like that.

lazyleft · Post by **lazyleft** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:58 am

AaronMalcomb wrote:
While we're slinging around quotes, let me share one that I can't remember verbatim but I'll try and reproduce as faithfully as I can. Do not follow the same path as the master. Seek the same source and you will find mastery... or something like that.

Oh sh*t. Try saying that one done the pub. I haven't been in those kind of pubs for years and though I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have got the sh*t kicked out of me for saying that kind of pretentious sh*t I sure would have had the piss ripped out of me. (bleep) me. Just play the (bleep) tunes and shut the (bleep) up.
Thanks
Nate

Azalin · Post by **Azalin** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:56 am

talasiga wrote:
Azalin wrote: ........
your question is too broad to be answered correctly. I prefered to be 'shocking', but I personally think having your ego 'hurt' a bit can only be a good thing in the long run. It's an open thread and open question, and all fair game I'd say.
..........
if the quarry is too broad to be identified, don't shoot.
your prey may be out of season .....

Speaking of which, here's a style that hasn't evolved much throughout the years

Chiff and Fipple Forums

Am I just 'traditionally style-less?'

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"fair game"

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Re: "fair game"