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jim stone
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Re: Managed insecurity

Post by jim stone »

cocusflute wrote:
They're trying to keep us alive.
I've flown a good deal in countries where
there was a terrorist threat. Our security
is way too relaxed.
Nonsense. Prof. John Mueller has this to say regarding security and airline terrorism. Many of us fly with our flutes so this is relevant to the issue. And it is not sectarian politics.

"Even with the September 11 attacks included in the count, the number of Americans killed by international terrorism since the late 1960s (which is "when the State Department began counting) is about the same as the number of Americans killed over the same period by lightning, or accident-causing deer, or severe allergic reaction to peanuts.

"Accordingly, it would seem to be reasonable for those in charge of our safety to inform the public about how many airliners would have to crash before flying becomes as dangerous as driving the same distance in an automobile. It turns out that someone has made that calculation: University of Michigan transportation researchers Michael Sivak and Michael Flannagan, in an article last year in American Scientist, wrote that there would have to be one set of September 11 crashes a month for the risks to balance out. More generally, they calculate that an American’s chance of being killed in one nonstop airline flight is about one in 13 million (even taking the September 11 crashes into account). To reach that same level of risk when driving on America’s safest roads — rural interstate highways — one would have to travel a mere 11.2 miles.

"Thus far at least, terrorism is a rather rare and — in appropriate, comparative context — not a very destructive phenomenon. However, the enormous sums of money being spent to deal with the threat have in part been diverted from other, possibly more worthy, endeavors. The annual budget for the Department of Homeland Security, for example, now tops $30 billion, while state and local governments spend additional billions.

"For instance, measures that delay airline passengers by half an hour could cost the economy $15 billion a year, calculates economist Roger Congleton.

"Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.): “Calculate the odds of being harmed by a terrorist! It’s still about as likely as being swept out to sea by a tidal wave."

..........
The good professor is surely right that the number of Americans
killed in terrorist attacks since the 60s is low, averaged over all the years.
However this counts for little, as the pace increased extraordinarily
on 9/11, when 3000 people were killed in a few hours. Obviously
the security-response was to that extraordinarily
accelerated rate of fatalities.

It makes no sense to calibrate our security response to the fatality
rate that preceded 9/11, anymore than it would have to calibrate our
military response to Japanese aggression to the fatality rate that
preceded Pearl Harbor. Or to average that day's losses
over the last 40 or fifty years and observe that death at
the hands of Japanese military amounted
on average to no more than lives lost to bee stings or shark attacks
or whatever, so why spend millions on battle ships?

The argument is based on a fallacious 'thus far.'

'Thus far at least, terrorism is a rather rare and — in appropriate, comparative context — not a very destructive phenomenon.'

It ain't
'thus far' no more, sports fans. The terrorists have demonstrated
the will and the ability to kill thousands of us in a couple of hours.
That was the mortality rate that mattered, realistically.

If the risk of airlines-used-as-projectiles equaled that of traffic
related fatalities (one Sept 11 type episode a month, which
the terrorists certainly could arrange without stricter
security than we had in place),
that would mean 45,000 domestic airline related deaths a year,
3,500 a month, more or less, which would mean the end of the airline
airline industry and air travel, economic chaos, and a
far more profound change to life as we know it
than was putting in place the level of airline security that is already in
place throughout a good deal of the world.
Not to mention the deaths themselves!
No country on earth that faces this threat just informs
the public that it's more cost effective to let the terrorists have
their way with airlines. Nor could a government that offered
them that option survive.

The McCain quote lacks a date--one supposes that JMc
is citing the effects of tightened security, not criticizing it.
The absence of the date is troubling. Grateful for citations
so we can read the whole piece you quote.

To put my cards on the table, I think our failed policies
in the middle east must be rectified before we can
win the 'war on terror.' But neither political party is willing to
address that effectively. Meanwhile
I really don't want to die the way the folks did on
9/11. Call me irrational, I can't help it, but I think
I speak for most everybody on this side of the Big Puddle.
As the security is there and we're paying for it, and the threat
is there too,
the security might as well be arranged to actually
work. I think it should be at least as tight as it was in India.
To the people involved, I don't mind the nuisance.
I thank anybody who is doing what she can to
keep me in one piece.
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Post by Nanohedron »

What's this I smell? Controversy? Politics? :wink:
"If you take music out of this world, you will have nothing but a ball of fire." - Balochi musician
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sbfluter
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Post by sbfluter »

Another good reason to own a Tipple. You can fly with aplomb (instead of with a bomb).
~ Diane
Flutes: Tipple D and E flutes and a Casey Burns Boxwood Rudall D flute
Whistles: Jerry Freeman Tweaked D Blackbird
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Aanvil
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Post by Aanvil »

sbfluter wrote:Another good reason to own a Tipple. You can fly with aplomb (instead of with a bomb).
You can also smack someone across the forehead with it.

Makes a nice satisfying crack, it does.
Aanvil

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I am not an expert
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Denny
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Post by Denny »

Denny wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:I draw the line at multitasking my musical instruments, though.
you, sir, need a Tipple! :twisted:

although a one piece, 8 hole delrin would be better :D
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chas
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Post by chas »

sbfluter wrote:They didn't confiscate your club but they took your killer toothpaste. Has the world gone mad? Or was that the only sane thing they did that day?
Yeah, and a little white bunny rabbit is perfectly harmless -- tell that to the brave kniggets of the round table. ;)

I've flown with wooden or polymer flutes in my carryon dozens of times in the last five years. Broken into three pieces they're about the same size and density (i. e., x-ray signature) as dynamite. Other than one time flying from Belgium into the US, when everyone was practically stripsearched, airport screeners have looked at my flute ONCE. I thanked the screener, chatted with him a bit, and he was a little surprised that it wasn't routinely flagged.

I'm with the others in thinking that much of the airport security is window dressing. I don't feel unsafe in any way, but it sure is damned inconvenient.
Charlie
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Post by gododdin »

Aanvil wrote:
You can also smack someone across the forehead with it.

Makes a nice satisfying crack, it does.
Sounds like you're speaking from experience! :D
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Post by MTGuru »

gododdin wrote:
Aanvil wrote:You can also smack someone across the forehead with it.

Makes a nice satisfying crack, it does.
Sounds like you're speaking from experience! :D
In sessions Aanvil gets to play whatever he wants. He has the flute. He's also a fencing master. Yes sir, whatever he wants. Though a Copeland whistle makes for a good jabbing defense. :-)
Vivat diabolus in musica! MTGuru's (old) GG Clips / Blackbird Clips

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Dr. Mierzwiak: Well, technically speaking, the procedure is brain damage.
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cocusflute
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Post by cocusflute »

Thank God I can play the flute. Thank God I no longer have to communicate with academics every day. Instead I will quote one and I promise I will say not one more word about this issue.

From the same article:

The shock and tragedy of September 11 does demand a focused and dedicated program to confront international terrorism and to attempt to prevent a repeat. But it seems sensible to suggest that part of this reaction should include an effort by politicians, officials, and the media to inform the public reasonably and realistically about the terrorist context instead of playing into the hands of terrorists by frightening the public.
What is needed, as one statistician suggests, is some sort of convincing, coherent, informed, and nuanced answer to a central question: “How worried should I be?” Instead, the message the nation has received so far is, as a Homeland Security official put (or caricatured) it, “Be scared; be very, very scared — but go on with your lives.” Such messages have led many people to develop ... “a false sense of insecurity.”

The point that Jim did not address is that the people who profit most from our national insecurity are not the airplane travelers and flute-players, but rather those people (and bureaucrats) who have an economic interest in, and receive enormous profits from, The War on Terror Industry. The generals, the current administration, Halliburton, Bechtel, Blackwater, etc. They want us to think that long lines at security check-points are necessary and valuable.

I have no more to say except that you should play slowly and play every note clearly. Oh, and just one more thing. Why don't they see how risky bodhrans and banjos are?
The struggle in Palestine is an American war, waged from Israel, America's most heavily armed foreign base and client state. We don't think of the war in such terms. Its assigned role has been clear: the destruction of Arab culture and nationalism.
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Post by jemtheflute »

cocusflute wrote:I have no more to say except that you should play slowly and play every note clearly.
Is that (when demonstrating the flutiness of your flute at an airport) so that the jobsworths will understand, like speaking to them slowly and clearly, in words of no more than two syllables?
cocusflute wrote:Oh, and just one more thing. Why don't they see how risky bodhrans and banjos are?
Hold luggage! :wink: :D
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!

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Tell us something.: irish music, specifically slow airs played on different whistle keys, also lower keyed flutes like Bb, but only from modern makers who have managed to get the hole spacing a little closer. And finally learning some fiddle tunes, mainly slow airs again so that the whole family don't go mad with the sound of a cat being strangled.
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Post by sponge »

I am on my ninth international photo assignment this year, and returned from Goa last night, I always travel with my Paddy Ward delrin flute in a soft case as carry on luggage, I also have two camera bodies 5 lenses a 17 inch widescreen laptop, a large Metz flash gun and two very suspect 9 inch by 3 inch by 2 inch rechargeable long life flash battery packs that have 6 led life indicator lights, three sockets and a power on switch the packs are made up of 6 cells inside a case and are all wired into each other, and when viewed under the xray they look very dodgy, I have had to explain this in great detail and in some cases have to hook up the flash gun and show it working, one mistake I did make was refering to the flash as a flash gun when leaving Raleigh in North Carolina in June, that held me up for 30 minutes, so you can see all the attention is drawn away from my little old delrin flute, and as my flute playing sucks as soon as anyone asks for a request, its a bit of luck that my carry on luggage looks suspect, unfortunatly I also look a bit suspect, but thats another story :D

sponge
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Post by Nanohedron »

cocusflute wrote:Oh, and just one more thing. Why don't they see how risky bodhrans and banjos are?
No kidding. And people don't seem to recognise that a banjo is a bodhrán with strings and a handle. Insidious.

BTW, here's a peerless banjo mute:

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Aanvil
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Post by Aanvil »

MTGuru wrote:
gododdin wrote:
Aanvil wrote:You can also smack someone across the forehead with it.

Makes a nice satisfying crack, it does.
Sounds like you're speaking from experience! :D
In sessions Aanvil gets to play whatever he wants. He has the flute. He's also a fencing master. Yes sir, whatever he wants. Though a Copeland whistle makes for a good jabbing defense. :-)

One cannot claim to have fully lived until one has parried a woodwind.
Aanvil

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I am not an expert
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