Hello Flutey-Folk
Would anyone happen to know the date when blocks went over to posts? (or a decent estimation?)
I am trying to determine something like " That flute has posts, so it cannot be any older than __________ "
Thanks in advance
Robert Mouland
www.wireharp.com
A post regarding the history of ... posts..... hmmm
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Sillydill
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Hey Robert,
It depends upon: who, what, where and when!
Different makers used different mounts and possibly both as per costumers requests.
What type of flute, Rudalls, Prattens, Hawkes....
Different countries and regions had different preferences: English liked blocks and French like posts....(certainly were exceptions).
Historically keys started out block mounted and I guess have migrated toward the current Boehm system.
I know this isn't really helping. But you shall have to be more specific in posing your question.
All the Best!
It depends upon: who, what, where and when!
Different makers used different mounts and possibly both as per costumers requests.
What type of flute, Rudalls, Prattens, Hawkes....
Different countries and regions had different preferences: English liked blocks and French like posts....(certainly were exceptions).
Historically keys started out block mounted and I guess have migrated toward the current Boehm system.
I know this isn't really helping. But you shall have to be more specific in posing your question.
All the Best!
Keep on Tootin!
Jordan
Jordan
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jemtheflute
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This is by no means a definitive answer and I haven't done any recent checking up on what I think I know on this topic, BUT, I did do a lot of reading and a bit of museum visiting researching the development of the flute (and with a general eye to other woodwind and even more thinly to other classes of noise-makers) about 15 years ago - and of course I had my ex-Archaeologist's head on as well.......
The gist of what I remember in terms of the typological sequence in the development of keys on flutes (and flutes seem to have been influential on other woodwind from the Baroque onwards...) is that the first post or pillar mounts used on flutes were devised by Laurent for his crystal glass flutes in the early C19th. Obviously block mounting was not viable in that context and he must have rejected the extant alternative of saddle mounting on either aesthetic or practical grounds. (Saddle mounting was used in the Renaissance for keys necessary on large woodwinds and is still used, I believe, on Northumbrian and Uillean pipes - it involves making a trough from a metal plate that is then affixed to the tube of the flute by screws or glue and serves in similar fashion to the groove cut in a turned block.) Laurent's small, turned pillars soldered onto decorative base plates were mounted onto his flutes by screws and/or glue. The engineering involved was scarcely innovative by comparison with long established techniques used by jewellers and watchmakers, but it was a new application. For whatever reasons - mechanical advantage, cheaper production, aesthetics, Laurent's design caught on in his native France and was being applied to wooden flutes during the second quarter of the C19th. It was resisted longest in Britain, but became the staple of the burgeoning German woodwind industry of the second half of the C19th. It was probably also a necessary prior step towards and inspiration for Boehm's revolutionary innovation, the pillar-mounted, longitudinal rod-axle with rotary action needle springs, which from it's first appearance in the 1830's led to sweeping changes in key-system design on all woodwinds because of the advantages it offered.
So, to try to answer the original question more concisely, a French wooden flute with posts could be anything after c1825. British or German/Austrian ones are more likely to be post c1850. But, as always with typology, there are introductory, dissemination and long overlap phases, conservatism and recidivism. Until say 1970 one could have said with virtual certainty that any flute with one or more block mounted keys MUST have been made before c1870. You couldn't say that now!
The change in style of key cups is another useful typological indicator too - flat square to salt-spoon with a side order of pewter plugs to shallow cup to flat cup to platter......
The gist of what I remember in terms of the typological sequence in the development of keys on flutes (and flutes seem to have been influential on other woodwind from the Baroque onwards...) is that the first post or pillar mounts used on flutes were devised by Laurent for his crystal glass flutes in the early C19th. Obviously block mounting was not viable in that context and he must have rejected the extant alternative of saddle mounting on either aesthetic or practical grounds. (Saddle mounting was used in the Renaissance for keys necessary on large woodwinds and is still used, I believe, on Northumbrian and Uillean pipes - it involves making a trough from a metal plate that is then affixed to the tube of the flute by screws or glue and serves in similar fashion to the groove cut in a turned block.) Laurent's small, turned pillars soldered onto decorative base plates were mounted onto his flutes by screws and/or glue. The engineering involved was scarcely innovative by comparison with long established techniques used by jewellers and watchmakers, but it was a new application. For whatever reasons - mechanical advantage, cheaper production, aesthetics, Laurent's design caught on in his native France and was being applied to wooden flutes during the second quarter of the C19th. It was resisted longest in Britain, but became the staple of the burgeoning German woodwind industry of the second half of the C19th. It was probably also a necessary prior step towards and inspiration for Boehm's revolutionary innovation, the pillar-mounted, longitudinal rod-axle with rotary action needle springs, which from it's first appearance in the 1830's led to sweeping changes in key-system design on all woodwinds because of the advantages it offered.
So, to try to answer the original question more concisely, a French wooden flute with posts could be anything after c1825. British or German/Austrian ones are more likely to be post c1850. But, as always with typology, there are introductory, dissemination and long overlap phases, conservatism and recidivism. Until say 1970 one could have said with virtual certainty that any flute with one or more block mounted keys MUST have been made before c1870. You couldn't say that now!
The change in style of key cups is another useful typological indicator too - flat square to salt-spoon with a side order of pewter plugs to shallow cup to flat cup to platter......
I respect people's privilege to hold their beliefs, whatever those may be (within reason), but respect the beliefs themselves? You gotta be kidding!
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My FB photo albums
Low Bb flute: 2 reels (audio)
Flute & Music Resources - helpsheet downloads
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Lar
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I have just been discussing Siccama flutes and their measurements with Terry McGee. I have Siccama #406 and David Levine just sold Siccama #400 on eBay. 406 has post-mounted, and 400 block-mounted keys. Both are Hudson-made flutes, as they both have key cups that attach by screwing into the lever arm of the keys. These flutes date from sometime shortly after 1846.
So, even the same maker might use one or the other method in the same short period of time.
So, even the same maker might use one or the other method in the same short period of time.
Larry Mallette
'Til Time Is No More
'Til Time Is No More
