Some Boehm Playing

[johnkerr]

Not to speak for Diane, but by "noodling" she may mean that she learns new tunes in sessions by quietly trying to grab the main notes of the tune, all at a distance and at a low volume that will minimize disruption to the session. I think we all do this.

This is something that is virtually impossible to do on the flute. To play softly without going flat requires an extremely high degree of embouchure development and breath control, skills which most session newbies are not going to possess. Also, while flute players are always chided for going sharp in sessions, it's actually a far worse sin to play flat. For some reason, even a flute player who is playing very softly but also flat will totally stick out in a session, and it's very annoying to others who hear it. And by the nature of the flute, others in the group will always be able to hear what a flute player is playing much better than the player will. Of course, if it's a very loud session some flute player playing softly but flat will not be as noticeable, but if it's that loud the player who is trying to figure out the tune won't be able to hear what they're playing either, so at that point what's the reason for doing it?

I have some very nice session recordings that are marred by someone playing flat on a flute. Every time I listen to them, I think "God, I hope that's not me." (I'm not the only one playing flute, which is why I can never know for sure. Hence the angst.) A flute player playing flat and tentatively as well, trying to find the notes, is even worse. Don't do it. The play softly and unobtrusively while trying to pick up the tune thing can be done on instruments that can be played softly and at pitch (like fiddles, accordions, etc), but never on flute. The beginner session flute player should bring a recorder, record the tunes, then go figure them out in the privacy of their own home where no one will care if they're out of tune.

[crookedtune]

Yes, very true. And now that I think of it, when I'm playing in a tentative way, I'm more likely to move from flute to a whistle. Still, you need to make sure you're staying out of the way.

[Cork]

Not to speak for Diane, but by "noodling" she may mean that she learns new tunes in sessions by quietly trying to grab the main notes of the tune, all at a distance and at a low volume that will minimize disruption to the session. I think we all do this.

This is something that is virtually impossible to do on the flute. To play softly without going flat requires an extremely high degree of embouchure development and breath control, skills which most session newbies are not going to possess. Also, while flute players are always chided for going sharp in sessions, it's actually a far worse sin to play flat. For some reason, even a flute player who is playing very softly but also flat will totally stick out in a session, and it's very annoying to others who hear it. And by the nature of the flute, others in the group will always be able to hear what a flute player is playing much better than the player will. Of course, if it's a very loud session some flute player playing softly but flat will not be as noticeable, but if it's that loud the player who is trying to figure out the tune won't be able to hear what they're playing either, so at that point what's the reason for doing it?

I have some very nice session recordings that are marred by someone playing flat on a flute. Every time I listen to them, I think "God, I hope that's not me." (I'm not the only one playing flute, which is why I can never know for sure. Hence the angst.) A flute player playing flat and tentatively as well, trying to find the notes, is even worse. Don't do it. The play softly and unobtrusively while trying to pick up the tune thing can be done on instruments that can be played softly and at pitch (like fiddles, accordions, etc), but never on flute. The beginner session flute player should bring a recorder, record the tunes, then go figure them out in the privacy of their own home where no one will care if they're out of tune.

Ah, but couldn't a session entail many things, such as a looseness to any formal standard. In contrast, perhaps a paid performance could be expected to have a higher standard.

That's the great thing about sessions.

Edit: I'll say something else, in that I see this, the C&F board, and its forums (Hello, Flute Forum!), as also being a kind of session, perhaps not perfect, but, hey, here we are.

[cocusflute]

If you can't play well then perhaps a session with a "looseness to any formal standard" would be a good thing. Kind of a formless jam. But that wouldn't be a session in the ITM sense of the word, where there are standards, even if unarticulated, that are fairly strict.
I can't imagine what you mean here. Could you give an example?
Diane, sounds like you know what you're about now. You've got some tunes and sensitivity to what goes on in a session. Good going.

[crookedtune]

I'm with Cocus this time. (Holy cow! ). A jam is a jam, and a session is a session. I'm all for both, but they are very different situations.

[johnkerr]

Ah, but couldn't a session entail many things, such as a looseness to any formal standard. In contrast, perhaps a paid performance could be expected to have a higher standard.

That's the great thing about sessions.

Any session, no matter how loose, should have as its minimum standard that everyone plays in tune with everyone else. No exceptions, except perhaps for a piper and a box player who find that their respective instruments aren't in tune with each other and there's nothing they can do about it. Even then, if two good players find themselves in such a situation you'll often see them take turns playing rather than clash with each other. Sessions are about making music, not making noise. And ITM is a music that is traditionally played in tune, except for solo situations where the player can have some freedom to put in the odd haunting or quare notes to send a chill down your spine. But when playing more than one together at a time, job one is and always should be to play in tune.

My own development was hampered for many years by having to play at a session where many people didn't care about playing in tune. It was the only session in town, so I had nowhere else to go. And there was no one in charge at this session, so I had no one to complain to - assuming I had known at the time that the reason I always sounded so bad in the session when I thought I was sounding better playing at home was because no matter what I did I would be out of tune with nearly everone else there, because they didn't tune!

If your session is full of beginners and you all really don't have a clue about tuning, buy an electronic tuner and tune yourselves to it one by one at the beginning of the session, and several times during the session if necessary. This won't do the whole job, because you'll still have to deal with people who can't play their instruments in tune with themselves across their whole range, but it will at least get you part of the way there. You'll at least start to hear what playing in tune with each other sounds like, and if you keep working toward being in tune as a goal, eventually you'll get there. Really, the two most important things that separate well-meaning hobbyist players from the "big boys" are that the "big boys" play with good rhythm and they play in tune. How many tunes you know has nothing at all to do with it.

[johnkerr]

I'm with Cocus this time. (Holy cow! ). A jam is a jam, and a session is a session. I'm all for both, but they are very different situations.

In Irish music, a jam is something you spread on your morning toast. Although I prefer a bit of orange marmalade on a good piece of brown bread or a scone myself.

[Cork]

Perhaps sessions could be less formal, and perhaps performances could be held to a higher standard, or something like that. That is, perhaps some gatherings could be more cooperative, while others could be more competitive.

[TheSpoonMan]

Perhaps sessions could be less formal, and perhaps performances could be held to a higher standard, or something like that. That is, perhaps some gatherings could be more cooperative, while others could be more competitive.

I wouldn't call playing out of tune, just to make things easier, cooperative... it'll certainly sound comptetitive to anyone listening.

That said I've never had an issue with the specific issue here. There's a flute player at the session I've been to that does that, I sit right next to her, it's never been an issue. Smallish session too. But it always seemed in tune to me... maybe she knows and knows how to sharpen herself. *shrug* But if someone really is throwing everybody off, they really should agree to stop once someone points it out, and start again once they can do what they're supposed to. Now that's cooperation. I mean when you're in a communal situation where, honestly, some people are better at whatever's going on than other people (and no, I can't always define better, but I sure can define worse- and that's usually me), in order to be "cooperative", the "worse" people have to defer to the "better" people until they become "better". It's not as immediately fun for them, but in the long run it's the best. And I say that as someone who is definately not "better", in Irish or concer band or church or any other musical situation.

[sbhikes]

And I suppose I should listen to a bunch of guys on the Internet and ignore the people in the real session who tell me to just play and do the best I can? I listened to you guys for 2 months and nobody ever said more than a few words to me. But last night, playing as horribly as I do, with a flute that's probably not in tune, I finally gained some credibility and acceptance with my fellows.

[peeplj]

And I suppose I should listen to a bunch of guys on the Internet and ignore the people in the real session who tell me to just play and do the best I can? I listened to you guys for 2 months and nobody ever said more than a few words to me. But last night, playing as horribly as I do, with a flute that's probably not in tune, I finally gained some credibility and acceptance with my fellows.

1. You probably don't play nearly so horribly as you think you do.

2. Usually if a flute isn't reasonably in tune everyone, including you, will know. The sound of a flute out-of-tune with other instruments is pretty nasty; it doesn't take guess-work to know when you're hearing it.

3. Sessions as they are often described on these boards are very different from the real sessions that I have actually played in. It would be a mistake to form your opinion on sessions by simply reading about them--the best way to become familiar with a session, in my opinion, is go and listen, be unobtrusive, but do try to introduce yourself to at least some of the players (either before or after).

Be nice, use common sense, and show interest, and you just may find that the sessions which you read about (which may sound cold and unwelcoming and unfriendly to newcomers) are in fact made of friendly and approachable people.

That's been my experience, anyway.

--James

[TheSpoonMan]

And I suppose I should listen to a bunch of guys on the Internet and ignore the people in the real session who tell me to just play and do the best I can? I listened to you guys for 2 months and nobody ever said more than a few words to me. But last night, playing as horribly as I do, with a flute that's probably not in tune, I finally gained some credibility and acceptance with my fellows.

Well see, there you go. The people at your session have told you to do that; so, do it If you're being truly disruptive, they'll tell you (see #1 and #2 of what peeplj said); otherwise go for it. That's what I was trying to say.

There's always gonna be beginners- I'm one of them, so I know- because otherwise the music will die; and teaching people is a pleasure anyhow! So there will always be beginners in a session. But sometimes more experienced players realize things beginners don't, things that can make the session experience bad for everyone, except perhaps that naive beginner. I've been in this situation before, where I'm causing a problem for everyone but don't fully realize it. When that happens, it's the responsibility of an experienced player to tell the beginner where he's gone wrong and show him how to do it right, and the responsibility of the beginner to try his best fix it according to what the more experienced player says. Babying people never helped anything.

But generally, beginners who love the music are willing to submit themselves to and immerse themselves in the music- otherwise, it's not the music they love, but their own performance and pride. And vets who love the music are (at least in my experience) willing to teach and nurture with gentleness, so the music can go on- otehrwise, it's not the music they love, but their own performance and pride. So I don't think there's much of a problem here. People have just got to be decent to each other, and love the music, and everything will follow from there. At least, that's how I see it.

[mcdafydd]

And I suppose I should listen to a bunch of guys on the Internet and ignore the people in the real session who tell me to just play and do the best I can? I listened to you guys for 2 months and nobody ever said more than a few words to me. But last night, playing as horribly as I do, with a flute that's probably not in tune, I finally gained some credibility and acceptance with my fellows.

It seems to me that many online forums have a large number of those-with-the-strongest-opinions-are-often-the-loudest posts that could mislead someone looking for a simple answer to a question. Instead you receive a complex answer that has been formed by years of intellectual and emotional "noodling" in the poster's psyche.

As with most things in life, if you're conscientious and respectful of others, you'll go far.

Ok, now it's time for me to get off my own strong-opinion soapbox.

[TheSpoonMan]

As with most things in life, if you're conscientious and respectful of others, you'll go far.

YES.

Ok, now it's time for me to get off my own strong-opinion soapbox.

You know, I carry an actual soapbox with me- not one of the big crates, but a little plastic box for holding a bar of soap. So whenever I get too heated up on a debate, at least in person, I get the soapbox out and stand a foot on it. It helps keep things in perspective

[crookedtune]

You're right on the mark, Diane. This is a virtual community. Your session is real flesh-and-blood people interacting as nature intended. Consider all this chatter for what it is, (sometimes useful, sometimes other things), and go with your gut. Glad to hear you've found what you were looking for!