exploring multiple flute traditions
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tin tin
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exploring multiple flute traditions
I know there are at least a few members of this forum who play shakuhachi, bansuri, ney, Native American flute, or Boehm/classical flute in addition to Irish flute. I'm curious what led you to explore additional flute traditions and how it influences your approach to the flute in general. What does the additional tradition (and type of flute) offer to your musical life?
Basically, Boehm flutes came first for me, and six holed flutes came along later. I like them both.
Because the Irish flute is just so bare bones simple, no mechanism and all, it's a fun flute to play. Or, to borrow from the automotive world, it's a hot rod.
Because the Irish flute is just so bare bones simple, no mechanism and all, it's a fun flute to play. Or, to borrow from the automotive world, it's a hot rod.
Last edited by Cork on Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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peeplj
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I also started on Boehm system flute.
From there in college due to my fascination with early music I added recorder and then Baroque flute.
I didn't start to play Irish tunes (very badly, at first) until much later, when I was looking for tunes to play while familiarizing myself with an old 8-key flute that came to me. The tunes were freely available online, and I was just starting to play again after having laid it down for years and years.
One thing that I still find very cool is that Irish dance melodies and many of the Medieval / Renaissance dance tunes are actually quite similar. In this case it's a kind of musical "parallel evolution," and it makes me feel very much that I've come full circle, if that makes any sense.
--James
From there in college due to my fascination with early music I added recorder and then Baroque flute.
I didn't start to play Irish tunes (very badly, at first) until much later, when I was looking for tunes to play while familiarizing myself with an old 8-key flute that came to me. The tunes were freely available online, and I was just starting to play again after having laid it down for years and years.
One thing that I still find very cool is that Irish dance melodies and many of the Medieval / Renaissance dance tunes are actually quite similar. In this case it's a kind of musical "parallel evolution," and it makes me feel very much that I've come full circle, if that makes any sense.
--James
http://www.flutesite.com
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"Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending" --Carl Bard
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"Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending" --Carl Bard
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Jumbuk
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Re: exploring multiple flute traditions
I came to flutes late in life (>50) after playing mainly strings (guitar, bass, dulcimer, banjo) and electronic keyboard since about age 20. I started on Native American Flute a few years back because (a) I was already listening to some of the great artists on this instrument, (b) I wanted an expressive "real" (ie non-sampled) instrument to use on my recordings, and (c) it seemed reasonably easy to play.
Once I had a year or so of NAF under my belt, the idea of a "real" flute (ie non-fipple) seemed less daunting. I took up Irish flute and shakuhachi more or less at the same time. The Irish flute was a natural progression, because I have been playing Celtic music since the 1980's. The shakuhachi is something I have always loved, but again thought it was beyond me until now. Learning shak is of course much more challenging - it also involves trying to absorb enough of the culture to be able to at least show the instrument due respect.
I have heard various comments about learning two instruments with different embouchures at the same time. Some say it's Ok, you can adjust to the requirements of each. Others suggest that you are making things hard for your brain and muscles. My own experience is that the latter is true, at least in my case. I make progress by working intensively on one for a few weeks, and then switching. If I try to work on both at once, I tend to go backwards with both.
I have a collection of other flutes, which I play now and then for fun, but my leisure time is too short to do them justice. When I get time, I really want to give some serious attention to my Quenas.
Once I had a year or so of NAF under my belt, the idea of a "real" flute (ie non-fipple) seemed less daunting. I took up Irish flute and shakuhachi more or less at the same time. The Irish flute was a natural progression, because I have been playing Celtic music since the 1980's. The shakuhachi is something I have always loved, but again thought it was beyond me until now. Learning shak is of course much more challenging - it also involves trying to absorb enough of the culture to be able to at least show the instrument due respect.
I have heard various comments about learning two instruments with different embouchures at the same time. Some say it's Ok, you can adjust to the requirements of each. Others suggest that you are making things hard for your brain and muscles. My own experience is that the latter is true, at least in my case. I make progress by working intensively on one for a few weeks, and then switching. If I try to work on both at once, I tend to go backwards with both.
I have a collection of other flutes, which I play now and then for fun, but my leisure time is too short to do them justice. When I get time, I really want to give some serious attention to my Quenas.
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pancelticpiper
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My first flute was the Irish flute, which I came to from uilleann piping. But later I got involved in playing Kena and Siku from Bolivia. What I gained from that experience was a rapid throat vibrato that they do on Kena and the higher-pitched Siku (on the big Siku, called Toyo, they play a slow diaphragm vibrato which is in the beat of the tune). So, I usually use the uilleann-style finger vibrato but on certain high notes in airs I may use the rapid throat vibrato, while on bottom D I use the slow diaphragm vibrato.
Then I played Bulgarian Kaval for a few years. That experience makes me strive for a kaba-like tone in the low register of low whistles or flutes.
Then I played Bulgarian Kaval for a few years. That experience makes me strive for a kaba-like tone in the low register of low whistles or flutes.
The cat is now out of the bag! Yes, there are similarities to these musics.peeplj wrote:...One thing that I still find very cool is that Irish dance melodies and many of the Medieval / Renaissance dance tunes are actually quite similar...
Of course, the Boehm flute was not invented until long after these musics and the Baroque had come along, and perhaps we Boehm players could be long and well known for "poaching" from these earlier eras, in addition to playing parts originally written for other instruments. Such theives!
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sbhikes
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The Irish flute has brought me back to music from a multi-decade hiatus.
There was a small break in the middle where I attempted Old-time fiddle, but once I learned I wouldn't have to keep struggling with a fiddle to play music, I got me a flute again.
I recently pulled out my old-time fiddle book. Turns out most of my favorite tunes in there are the Irish ones. Now I'm starting to get interested in other American genres. I may re-discover my own American traditional music in this adventure learning Irish music.
There was a small break in the middle where I attempted Old-time fiddle, but once I learned I wouldn't have to keep struggling with a fiddle to play music, I got me a flute again.
I recently pulled out my old-time fiddle book. Turns out most of my favorite tunes in there are the Irish ones. Now I'm starting to get interested in other American genres. I may re-discover my own American traditional music in this adventure learning Irish music.
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manu.bande
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Hi Tintin
I've started many years ago by playing trumpet , then I've learned didjeredoo , and finally went to flute playing , first with boheme flute but stop almost immediatly , toomany keys around ...
After that I've keeped playing didgeridoo , studied for a little while an old chiniese string instrument called Guqin , and finally I've discovered the shakuhachi ,thank's to my russian friend that at that time was studying for one year composition at the Shanghai's Music Conservatory .
The shakuhachi( wich I belive it is the most complex and difficult flute to master only after the Ney ) is the flute that give me more deep emotions and feel most especially if playing the Honkyoku Style ( the music played centuries ago by the japanese zen monks ) . BTW my honkyoku is far for being played well but I do my best to improve it every day .
As in Shanghai there's not Kinko style teachers for learning honkyoku , I have to learn it my self , but fortunatly I can study the other school , the Tozan Ryu , with a japanese gentleman that was studying shakuhachi in japan for over 5 years.
Anyway also in the Tozan school there're some pieces wich are in Honkyoku style but unfortunatly the japanese guy did not study them yet
For me shakuhachi it's a very deep connection with your soul , the sound connected to your breath and all the moments of silence in between notes, all the nuances create a moment that disconnet you to the rest of the world , it give you peace , sadness, joy , emptiness , and other emotions that I could not explain with world !
I feel very well connected with shakuhachi , especially in the solo playing , probably because I'm a person that sometime likes to be alone , only at that moment I can get all the concentration I need for playing it !
I'm not sure about becoming professional with shakuhachi , but sure I enjoying it very much , and it became part of my life !
More then a year ago , I've discovered Doc's website and falled in love with one of his second hands flutes and bought it ! That was the begining of the irish music adventure , very different of japanes music !
And probably a good way to balance the japanese music wich is much more a spiritual/ meditational way to explore music .
So , perhaps by playing irish music ( well ... trying to play it ) , wich is most of the times a joyfull music , I can balance the two very different kinds of music !
Last in the list , is the Ney !
I've exchanged few months ago one shakuhachi jinashi in A( made by miself) and two Xiao one in F and the other in G ( tonics) for two Turkish Ney made by a well known european Ney maker !
The Ney are beautifully made ( from arundo donax reed cane), but probably are the most difficult flutes to play that I've found so far , very different playing approach then shakuhachi or any other flute I have .
In few words ... you have to position your lips as you would whistle and put them on the top of the mouth hole by partially covering the blowing hole . You also have to hold the flute vertically and create an angle of 3o degrees ....
Anyway I don't think that I'm good enough to explain you how it works , so if you're interested about turkish ney you can search in Chiff&Fipple forum index and you'll find in the world/folk winds forum posts , some good links about turkish ney !
If played very well , like do the turkish brothers Erguner ( Kudsi & Sulyman ) , the ney really has a really amazing sound , also very spiritual and deep ( that's why probably is the most important instrument in the turkish Sufi music ).
When they improvise(taksim) with the Ney ( using also the first register/lowest octave ) wich is the most different to master , in fact to learn how to play the Ney , you should start playing the second register , wich has much more volume and it is in fact easier to learn .
To me it tooks almost a week to develop a (let's say) a decent sound with sufficient volume in the second register with both Ney , I've started with the Kiz Ney in A ( wich is the reccomended one for beginers) and after that I also managed to play the second register on the Sah ney in low F .
I can also play the first register with the Kiz and Sah ney , but the volume is incredibly low . I've heard that the Persian Ney is much louder in the lowest octave , but it seems that is even more difficult than the turkish one
Anyway I gonna take it easy with the Ney , as I have already enough troubles with learning shakuhachi and irish flutes and whistles !
The last words I gonna write for now are that I'm already considering myself very lucky to be able to play some learned or improvised tunes from different countries and to be able to play some interesting musical instruments !
It doesn't matter if you cannot play them like a professional , after all what professional means to you is very relative !!!!
At the time I've used to play trumpet , I did not certanly call my self a professional but I did earn money from playing trumpet in different countries !
Sometime I've also met someone who pretended to be a professional musician ,been studing all thouse years in a conservatory of music and be able to play perfectly all thouse classical music pieces , and then find himself in a jamsession and don't know what to do !
Music is not only studying and practice but also feeling , and for me the
most important is your personal feeling when you playing music , let yourself go with the melody !
Learn tunes but try also to be creative and just play what you feel inside and not just music that someone else have composed in the past .
Ops ... I guess I did write too much for now .
Have a nice day all of you
Manuel
I've started many years ago by playing trumpet , then I've learned didjeredoo , and finally went to flute playing , first with boheme flute but stop almost immediatly , toomany keys around ...
After that I've keeped playing didgeridoo , studied for a little while an old chiniese string instrument called Guqin , and finally I've discovered the shakuhachi ,thank's to my russian friend that at that time was studying for one year composition at the Shanghai's Music Conservatory .
The shakuhachi( wich I belive it is the most complex and difficult flute to master only after the Ney ) is the flute that give me more deep emotions and feel most especially if playing the Honkyoku Style ( the music played centuries ago by the japanese zen monks ) . BTW my honkyoku is far for being played well but I do my best to improve it every day .
As in Shanghai there's not Kinko style teachers for learning honkyoku , I have to learn it my self , but fortunatly I can study the other school , the Tozan Ryu , with a japanese gentleman that was studying shakuhachi in japan for over 5 years.
Anyway also in the Tozan school there're some pieces wich are in Honkyoku style but unfortunatly the japanese guy did not study them yet
For me shakuhachi it's a very deep connection with your soul , the sound connected to your breath and all the moments of silence in between notes, all the nuances create a moment that disconnet you to the rest of the world , it give you peace , sadness, joy , emptiness , and other emotions that I could not explain with world !
I feel very well connected with shakuhachi , especially in the solo playing , probably because I'm a person that sometime likes to be alone , only at that moment I can get all the concentration I need for playing it !
I'm not sure about becoming professional with shakuhachi , but sure I enjoying it very much , and it became part of my life !
More then a year ago , I've discovered Doc's website and falled in love with one of his second hands flutes and bought it ! That was the begining of the irish music adventure , very different of japanes music !
And probably a good way to balance the japanese music wich is much more a spiritual/ meditational way to explore music .
So , perhaps by playing irish music ( well ... trying to play it ) , wich is most of the times a joyfull music , I can balance the two very different kinds of music !
Last in the list , is the Ney !
I've exchanged few months ago one shakuhachi jinashi in A( made by miself) and two Xiao one in F and the other in G ( tonics) for two Turkish Ney made by a well known european Ney maker !
The Ney are beautifully made ( from arundo donax reed cane), but probably are the most difficult flutes to play that I've found so far , very different playing approach then shakuhachi or any other flute I have .
In few words ... you have to position your lips as you would whistle and put them on the top of the mouth hole by partially covering the blowing hole . You also have to hold the flute vertically and create an angle of 3o degrees ....
Anyway I don't think that I'm good enough to explain you how it works , so if you're interested about turkish ney you can search in Chiff&Fipple forum index and you'll find in the world/folk winds forum posts , some good links about turkish ney !
If played very well , like do the turkish brothers Erguner ( Kudsi & Sulyman ) , the ney really has a really amazing sound , also very spiritual and deep ( that's why probably is the most important instrument in the turkish Sufi music ).
When they improvise(taksim) with the Ney ( using also the first register/lowest octave ) wich is the most different to master , in fact to learn how to play the Ney , you should start playing the second register , wich has much more volume and it is in fact easier to learn .
To me it tooks almost a week to develop a (let's say) a decent sound with sufficient volume in the second register with both Ney , I've started with the Kiz Ney in A ( wich is the reccomended one for beginers) and after that I also managed to play the second register on the Sah ney in low F .
I can also play the first register with the Kiz and Sah ney , but the volume is incredibly low . I've heard that the Persian Ney is much louder in the lowest octave , but it seems that is even more difficult than the turkish one
Anyway I gonna take it easy with the Ney , as I have already enough troubles with learning shakuhachi and irish flutes and whistles !
The last words I gonna write for now are that I'm already considering myself very lucky to be able to play some learned or improvised tunes from different countries and to be able to play some interesting musical instruments !
It doesn't matter if you cannot play them like a professional , after all what professional means to you is very relative !!!!
At the time I've used to play trumpet , I did not certanly call my self a professional but I did earn money from playing trumpet in different countries !
Sometime I've also met someone who pretended to be a professional musician ,been studing all thouse years in a conservatory of music and be able to play perfectly all thouse classical music pieces , and then find himself in a jamsession and don't know what to do !
Music is not only studying and practice but also feeling , and for me the
most important is your personal feeling when you playing music , let yourself go with the melody !
Learn tunes but try also to be creative and just play what you feel inside and not just music that someone else have composed in the past .
Ops ... I guess I did write too much for now .
Have a nice day all of you
Manuel
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cadancer
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Re: exploring multiple flute traditions
I am a dancer. Having said that, I took up playing the Bulgarian Kaval in 1978. I used to dance with a Folk Ensemble here in the Los Angeles area. We did shows for school children. I decided that I needed to find something constructive to do between shows, so I took up playing kaval. (I particularly like Bulgarian dancing and music).Tintin wrote:I know there are at least a few members of this forum who play shakuhachi, bansuri, ney, Native American flute, or Boehm/classical flute in addition to Irish flute. I'm curious what led you to explore additional flute traditions and how it influences your approach to the flute in general. What does the additional tradition (and type of flute) offer to your musical life?
The kaval is an end-blown flute similar to the Ney. It is a 3-piece wooden shepherd's (sheep) instrument that has 8 holes (one a thumb hole) cow horn (taking the place of the silver) surrounding the sockets and the open playing end. It is played with a "piper's" - type fingering.
Bulgarian music has a vast array of rhythms (2/4, 5/8, 6/8, 7/8, 9/8, 11/8, 12/8 and others). The ornamentation is very complex and is done within the context of the different rhythms. Vibrato is done with the fingers rhythmically rolling away (and back) from the flute and letting the hole open enough for a little air to get out, but not enough to change pitch.
I am Irish ( okay 1 Irish grandparent on each side) and about a year after I took up the kaval I heard an Irish flute being played. Wow! I just loved it. However, I did not really feel that I could play both instruments. So I stuck with the kaval.
I finally decided to take up the Irish flute and whistle a few months ago. Both Bulgarian and Irish music have very strong dance traditions and, I think, that is what creates the strong connection for me with the music.
I particularly like the low-end tones of the instruments and that the Irish flute has a very strong 1st octave. The kaval has a very weak first octave, BUT... there is a "low register" that can be obtained by combining the 1st and 2nd registers together. It is called "kaba" and took me about 2 years to get any sound from it at all. It creates a beautiful, rich, warm tone which can also be very powerful as well.
note: the kaval is cylindrical and the holes are basically uniform and equally spaced on the body. D,E,F,F#,G,G#,A,B(thumb).
So, the answer to your question is that I love folk dance and the music that is connected to it. I love the low-register of the "Irish" (concert) conical-style flute. I love the low kaba "register" of the Bulgarian kaval. I am hoping to be able to connect with more musicians as I learn to play Irish music. There are WAY more Irish musicians here in the LA area than Bulgarian ones.
Best wishes,
John
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manu.bande
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Hi Jim
from my experience to get up and running on shakuhachi it takes a while , I think I've started to play it around 4 years ago , but the first couple of years it was very discontinued , I did not play it every day and did not play it at all for long periods of time !!!
So finally in the last two years I've decided to get more serious about it and did play it every day for at least an hour and in the last year after starting to study it with my japanese friend I've managed to practice and study for 3 or 4 hours a day .
So it is in this last year that I could see much improvment and feel much more confortable with it .
You know perhaps better than me that practice is one of the main keys , and I must say the teachings of my japanese friend were very usefull , so yes a teacher for a while it is always a good idea !
If you have to study honkyoku I guess a teacher it's even more important because even if you have the notations , there are so many different ways to interpret the piece ( each school has special arrangements around the main structure ) !
I guess you can also try your self study the honkyoku style as I trying to do , but sure first it is much more convenient to study few minyo folk pieces for developping a good embouchure , then start with folk pieces with more elaborate fingering like closing three quarter of holes , half hole , or just 1/3 . Then practicing the meri and kari wich is achieved by lowering or rising the chin , by doing that you can lower a note by a semitone higher or lower , and other techniques like korokoro , karakara , etc. etc. (there are planty of them and all very important for after playing honkyoku ) .
Belive me honkyoku is very difficult even if sometime it sound so simple , as simple looks the design of the shakuhachi with only five holes ( pentatonic scale ) !
But unfortunatly it's not that simple !!!
I guess for you it should be not so hard to start as you've been playing long time the irish flutes and perhaps some other kind , and you sure have developped already a good diafraghm muscles wich help you with the breath etc., thought the shakuhachi sometime , especially in honkyoku has very long phrases so perhaps one need to develop even more the diaphragme !
And of course you must think about the mouth hole wich is almost like to play an empty bottle !
Sure there is also a lot of fun once you get some confidence with it and to be able to play just a bit of honkyoku is already a good step .
In the market there are some very good shakuhachi for beginners , the YUU in ABS plastic ( really nice sound) 100 USD from the YUU website, or a wooden shakuhachi called MON ( from Mejiro website in Japan )also around 100/150 USD ,in maple wood .
The standard key for a shakuhachi is in D , that what you use in the begining , then you have planty differents keys , lower or higher .
I particularly like to play very long shakuhachi , in F for instance , 91 cm in lenght , but at the moment I still use mainly the standard one in D .
If you like to know more about the meditational aspect there is a nice article if you follow this link :
http://www.shakuhachi.org/HONKYOKU.html
If you want books or CD's material to work with , I think the best website to get them is www.shakuhachi.com
Monty Levenson is a very well known shakuhachi maker , and perhaps you can find there also some quiet cheap shakuhachi to start with .
There're also PVC shakuhachi wich are the cheapers !
But of course .... bamboo is supposed to be the best !
I belive in USA is much easier to find a shakuhachi teacher than here in China !
Hope you'll try to learn this beautifull instrument !
Well , sorry but now is already july 31st , 5:00 AM , so I guess I'll gonna go to sleep !
Best
Manuel
from my experience to get up and running on shakuhachi it takes a while , I think I've started to play it around 4 years ago , but the first couple of years it was very discontinued , I did not play it every day and did not play it at all for long periods of time !!!
So finally in the last two years I've decided to get more serious about it and did play it every day for at least an hour and in the last year after starting to study it with my japanese friend I've managed to practice and study for 3 or 4 hours a day .
So it is in this last year that I could see much improvment and feel much more confortable with it .
You know perhaps better than me that practice is one of the main keys , and I must say the teachings of my japanese friend were very usefull , so yes a teacher for a while it is always a good idea !
If you have to study honkyoku I guess a teacher it's even more important because even if you have the notations , there are so many different ways to interpret the piece ( each school has special arrangements around the main structure ) !
I guess you can also try your self study the honkyoku style as I trying to do , but sure first it is much more convenient to study few minyo folk pieces for developping a good embouchure , then start with folk pieces with more elaborate fingering like closing three quarter of holes , half hole , or just 1/3 . Then practicing the meri and kari wich is achieved by lowering or rising the chin , by doing that you can lower a note by a semitone higher or lower , and other techniques like korokoro , karakara , etc. etc. (there are planty of them and all very important for after playing honkyoku ) .
Belive me honkyoku is very difficult even if sometime it sound so simple , as simple looks the design of the shakuhachi with only five holes ( pentatonic scale ) !
But unfortunatly it's not that simple !!!
I guess for you it should be not so hard to start as you've been playing long time the irish flutes and perhaps some other kind , and you sure have developped already a good diafraghm muscles wich help you with the breath etc., thought the shakuhachi sometime , especially in honkyoku has very long phrases so perhaps one need to develop even more the diaphragme !
And of course you must think about the mouth hole wich is almost like to play an empty bottle !
Sure there is also a lot of fun once you get some confidence with it and to be able to play just a bit of honkyoku is already a good step .
In the market there are some very good shakuhachi for beginners , the YUU in ABS plastic ( really nice sound) 100 USD from the YUU website, or a wooden shakuhachi called MON ( from Mejiro website in Japan )also around 100/150 USD ,in maple wood .
The standard key for a shakuhachi is in D , that what you use in the begining , then you have planty differents keys , lower or higher .
I particularly like to play very long shakuhachi , in F for instance , 91 cm in lenght , but at the moment I still use mainly the standard one in D .
If you like to know more about the meditational aspect there is a nice article if you follow this link :
http://www.shakuhachi.org/HONKYOKU.html
If you want books or CD's material to work with , I think the best website to get them is www.shakuhachi.com
Monty Levenson is a very well known shakuhachi maker , and perhaps you can find there also some quiet cheap shakuhachi to start with .
There're also PVC shakuhachi wich are the cheapers !
But of course .... bamboo is supposed to be the best !
I belive in USA is much easier to find a shakuhachi teacher than here in China !
Hope you'll try to learn this beautifull instrument !
Well , sorry but now is already july 31st , 5:00 AM , so I guess I'll gonna go to sleep !
Best
Manuel
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Jumbuk
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There is a Japanese saying "three years for the basics" (I can't remember the Japanese words).jim stone wrote:How long does it take to get up and running on Shak?
What does one need to do it, e.g. how good an instrument?
Must one have a teacher?
It's intriguing, the meditational aspect.
After about 18 months, I don't have a strong enough tone yet, but I can get a reasonable sound out of it (most times - that is an achievement in itself!). I can play a few basic folk tunes. I am still developing meri technique (bending pitch to get notes in between the pentatonic scale).
I bought my beginner's instrument for about $100 - it's is one of Monty Levenson's tiger bamboo 1.8's (pitched in D). It is fine to learn on. I am expecting a custom made one from Perry Yung's workshop soon (more expensive!).
A teacher is not essential to get started, but a teacher will help maintain motivation and avoid you getting stuck with bad technique. You can use recordings and concerts to help absorb the culture and sound to a certain extent, but like with ITM a teacher is really essential if you are serious about the music.
I started without a teacher before I decided to take the shak further. I think this is a good, inexpensive way to explore the idea. You can always resell your instrument if you decide it's not for you - no harm done!
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Romulo
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- Location: Gunma-Japan
It's "Kubifuri sannen" 首ふり三年, that is, three years to learn the "kubifuri", which is the typical shakuhachi vibrato made by moving the neck (kubi).Jumbuk wrote:
There is a Japanese saying "three years for the basics" (I can't remember the Japanese words).
I think it's a bit of exaggeration and they have this saying for almost everything here. Like in martial arts usually they say "Ukemi sannen", that is, three years to learn how to fall properly.
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pancelticpiper
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- Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years.
These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format. - Location: WV to the OC
I've been playing Bulgarian kaval for a few years, not regularly enough to get very good. I can play tunes fluently in the 2nd and 3rd registers, and used to play in a Bulgarian dance band, but I've yet to get a decent kaba tone. I love listening to Theodisi Spassov when he's playing traditional dance music (not jazz)- he's amazing.