I've wanted to play flute for some time, and love Irish music, but also want to try easier stuff and expressive pieces, doing my own thing, etc.
I can get clear notes across a couple of octaves on a keyed metal flute, but prefer the sound of a wooden flute, and also like the simplicity of something like the Desi Seery simple 6 hole flute (http://www.worldtrad.org/Seery)
My main issue at the moment is that I live in a place not known for instrument shops, and haven't found a teacher yet. So, questions...
Is it possible to play complex tunes on a simple 6 hole flute, or does it require a keyed flute?
Are there any great musical disadvantages to a 6 hole flute?
The advantages I can see with the Seery are (obviously) little to rust or break, they won't crack and need little maintenance, and could provide a fun challenge for a hobbyist who'll probably get no nearer to a concert stage than four or five good beers will allow.
The cost is not really an issue as much as the versitility of the flute - I'd rather learn on a good instrument than a lesser one, and intend to pursue it for years as a challenge and new learning experience. If I become good enough to play with motley ceilidh groups then all the better.
I'll have a read through the forums when I have some more free time, but any help would be most appreciated.
Michael
What am I doing..?
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Michael31856
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Congratulations
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If you're playing Irish music, that no-keys Seery will do you fine until you die. You might later decide you want a few keys (the do have some advantage), at which point you can have them added to your flute for something like 100 euros a piece.
If you want to play jazz or classical music or something, a simple-system flute is probably not the way to go (although it's fully possible, I'd think, the boehm is better suited). But for trad, simple system makes sense.
If you want to play jazz or classical music or something, a simple-system flute is probably not the way to go (although it's fully possible, I'd think, the boehm is better suited). But for trad, simple system makes sense.
oh Lana Turner we love you get up
Re: What am I doing..?
What do you mean by "complex tunes"? There are some tunes thatMichael31856 wrote:Is it possible to play complex tunes on a simple 6 hole flute, or does it require a keyed flute?
I would consider complex, which are in a key that can be played
without excessive half holing on a keyless flute. If by "complex", you
mean a tune that has lots and lots of accidentals, then that might be
tough until you get really good at half-holing, or send it back for a
key or two (they can be added later). A large portion of the Irish
repertoire can be played on a keyless D flute.
Another advantage: the resale on delrin flutes (at least M&E and Seeri
in my limited experience) make them a pretty good value to start on.
They can be sold later to offset the cost of a wooden flute if the need
hits. (Though, most seem to keep them around because they're so
nice and travel well.)
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Michael31856
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Thanks guys
Yep, the Seery seems to be the way to go. I want to learn on a reasonably good flute, and also one I don't have to worry about looking after too much (in terms of cleaning, oiling, etc).
Sorry I wasn't too clear in my question about 'complex' tunes. Of course many complex sounding traditional tunes are simple in note structure, but no doubt difficult to play in terms of speed, accidentals (new word today), and sheer endurance!
What I should have asked is can you play a full range of sharps and flats, so that playing almost anything is possible. (The Scots and Irish pipes come to mind, where the former can't play a full scale). I've just found a tutorial web page with a 6 Hole fingering chart, which says you can half-hole or 'fork' notes. I would imagine that sliding notes might be easier with a simple flute too, as you have more finger control on the holes..?
As you say, Congratulations, a boehm would probably be better for jazz or classical, but my main fancy is getting into the mix at open ceilidh sessions when I'm capable enough to be tolerated (or they've had too much beer to notice or really care). Also, I'd like to learn simple emotive pieces, some from 70's rock stuff, and like the idea of maybe stretching myself on a simple flute.
Cheers,
Michael
Sorry I wasn't too clear in my question about 'complex' tunes. Of course many complex sounding traditional tunes are simple in note structure, but no doubt difficult to play in terms of speed, accidentals (new word today), and sheer endurance!
What I should have asked is can you play a full range of sharps and flats, so that playing almost anything is possible. (The Scots and Irish pipes come to mind, where the former can't play a full scale). I've just found a tutorial web page with a 6 Hole fingering chart, which says you can half-hole or 'fork' notes. I would imagine that sliding notes might be easier with a simple flute too, as you have more finger control on the holes..?
As you say, Congratulations, a boehm would probably be better for jazz or classical, but my main fancy is getting into the mix at open ceilidh sessions when I'm capable enough to be tolerated (or they've had too much beer to notice or really care). Also, I'd like to learn simple emotive pieces, some from 70's rock stuff, and like the idea of maybe stretching myself on a simple flute.
Cheers,
Michael
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tin tin
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A couple resources:
www.firescribble.net/flute
www.irishflutestore.com
I'd start with a keyless (6-hole) flute--while it doesn't sport a full chromatic scale, you can play in several keys (minor and major) and modes, and some notes outside of the basic D major scale are available via half-holing or cross-fingering. A keyless flute can be plenty expressive.
Also, don't shy away from wood. It's not horribly high maintainance--it just takes some common-sense care.
www.firescribble.net/flute
www.irishflutestore.com
I'd start with a keyless (6-hole) flute--while it doesn't sport a full chromatic scale, you can play in several keys (minor and major) and modes, and some notes outside of the basic D major scale are available via half-holing or cross-fingering. A keyless flute can be plenty expressive.
Also, don't shy away from wood. It's not horribly high maintainance--it just takes some common-sense care.
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Michael31856
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Took the plunge
Thanks for the links Tintin.
I've just taken the plunge and ordered the Seery, which I should have in 3 weeks. I think the low maintenance is a plus for me to begin with, as is the lack of possible damage to keys, etc., and something about the simplicity really appeals to me too.
From the fingering chart I've seen it looks like there's not much you can't do, and if it's good enough for the wonderful Irish performers I've heard then it'll certainly do me.
Can't wait to annoy the neighbours! A coming joy is that I can take it outdoors through the summer months whilst at work all over Lincolnshire in the UK, and either charm folks walking through the woods, or perhaps attract flocks of geese...
Michael
I've just taken the plunge and ordered the Seery, which I should have in 3 weeks. I think the low maintenance is a plus for me to begin with, as is the lack of possible damage to keys, etc., and something about the simplicity really appeals to me too.
From the fingering chart I've seen it looks like there's not much you can't do, and if it's good enough for the wonderful Irish performers I've heard then it'll certainly do me.
Can't wait to annoy the neighbours! A coming joy is that I can take it outdoors through the summer months whilst at work all over Lincolnshire in the UK, and either charm folks walking through the woods, or perhaps attract flocks of geese...
Michael
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Michael31856
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Hi Jim,
Actually, part of the reason I've gone for it is the challenge. I played guitar for fun years ago (am a young 49 now), but never did anything seriously with it. I love live Irish music, and wanted to play flute for a long time but other things in life distracted me.
I'm at a point in my life where I have no real problems or challenges, and the freedom to do as I wish, so I want both fun and a challenging learning experience from taking up an instrument.
I can get (and hold) clear notes on a boehm flute across the bottom two octaves, and some third at a push, but never learned to play one as I fancied the sound of wood far more. The Seery no doubt won't be a push-over, but that'll be half the fun. If I make it honk like a goose for the first week or two then it'll put a smile on my face!
On another note, I even like the idea of having to work to get notes which are far easier on a boehm, using half-holing and/or cross-fingering. I think it feels far more rewarding when you master something difficult on a simple instrument, as the skill is more yours than just the clever instrument design.
Michael
Actually, part of the reason I've gone for it is the challenge. I played guitar for fun years ago (am a young 49 now), but never did anything seriously with it. I love live Irish music, and wanted to play flute for a long time but other things in life distracted me.
I'm at a point in my life where I have no real problems or challenges, and the freedom to do as I wish, so I want both fun and a challenging learning experience from taking up an instrument.
I can get (and hold) clear notes on a boehm flute across the bottom two octaves, and some third at a push, but never learned to play one as I fancied the sound of wood far more. The Seery no doubt won't be a push-over, but that'll be half the fun. If I make it honk like a goose for the first week or two then it'll put a smile on my face!
On another note, I even like the idea of having to work to get notes which are far easier on a boehm, using half-holing and/or cross-fingering. I think it feels far more rewarding when you master something difficult on a simple instrument, as the skill is more yours than just the clever instrument design.
Michael
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dow
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Good Attitude.Michael31856 wrote:Hi Jim,
Actually, part of the reason I've gone for it is the challenge. I played guitar for fun years ago (am a young 49 now), but never did anything seriously with it. I love live Irish music, and wanted to play flute for a long time but other things in life distracted me.
I'm at a point in my life where I have no real problems or challenges, and the freedom to do as I wish, so I want both fun and a challenging learning experience from taking up an instrument.
I can get (and hold) clear notes on a boehm flute across the bottom two octaves, and some third at a push, but never learned to play one as I fancied the sound of wood far more. The Seery no doubt won't be a push-over, but that'll be half the fun. If I make it honk like a goose for the first week or two then it'll put a smile on my face!
On another note, I even like the idea of having to work to get notes which are far easier on a boehm, using half-holing and/or cross-fingering. I think it feels far more rewarding when you master something difficult on a simple instrument, as the skill is more yours than just the clever instrument design.
Michael
Dow Mathis ∴
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Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently motivated fool.
Boerne, TX
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently motivated fool.
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RudallRose
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michael
you might not have considered the advantages of sticking with your boehm flute, but using a WOOD headpiece. It would give you a very decent sound that you're seeking without compromising. Makers such as Robert Bigio and Chris Abel are specialists at the wood headjoint onto Boehm bodies.
Too....know that a simple system flute is scaled to D,not C. Biggest change is the Boehm fingering for F is actually F# on the simple.
Regarding full chromatics, if you're wanting to play tunes in Eb or Ab or the majors of that ilk, then keys are essential. Unless you are to be an expert in the alternate fingerings and half-holes, which is very difficult to master, then you'll be better off with keys. Or simply buy different pitched flutes without keys! That would solve a lot, too.
And if you've got HUGE long hands, then consider a multi-hole flute by Healy. For my money, if I could I would, but my hands are too small to handle it without severe cramps.
My 2cents.
you might not have considered the advantages of sticking with your boehm flute, but using a WOOD headpiece. It would give you a very decent sound that you're seeking without compromising. Makers such as Robert Bigio and Chris Abel are specialists at the wood headjoint onto Boehm bodies.
Too....know that a simple system flute is scaled to D,not C. Biggest change is the Boehm fingering for F is actually F# on the simple.
Regarding full chromatics, if you're wanting to play tunes in Eb or Ab or the majors of that ilk, then keys are essential. Unless you are to be an expert in the alternate fingerings and half-holes, which is very difficult to master, then you'll be better off with keys. Or simply buy different pitched flutes without keys! That would solve a lot, too.
And if you've got HUGE long hands, then consider a multi-hole flute by Healy. For my money, if I could I would, but my hands are too small to handle it without severe cramps.
My 2cents.
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Jennie
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If you make it honk like a goose in the first week, then I'll be jealous. I've been playing for a year and I can't get even close to the "honk like a goose" sound I'm striving for!Michael31856 wrote:I can get (and hold) clear notes on a boehm flute across the bottom two octaves, and some third at a push, but never learned to play one as I fancied the sound of wood far more. The Seery no doubt won't be a push-over, but that'll be half the fun. If I make it honk like a goose for the first week or two then it'll put a smile on my face!
Jennie
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Michael31856
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Hi David. I didn't own the boehm, but a while ago a friend said he'd teach me, and told me to try making just a note from it. For some reason he seemed to think I wouldn't be able to. I blew a couple of honks, felt what I was doing wrong, then went through two and bit octaves, holding each note to make sure it was sounding right, and adding a bit of vibrato. It didn't seem very hard just to get notes, but my mate reckoned I was fibbing and that I'd played before, but I hadn't.
I liked the idea, but not the metal flute sound, and as I said, I've done nothing about it until now. I really do want the fun of a challenge and a long-term learning curve, plus the eventual fun of joining in at pub ceilidh nights.
As most Irish music is in D and G from what I've gathered, I should be fine. Maybe if I become a half decent player but want to try different styles in future then a good keyed wood instrument might be an idea. For now the Seery will keep me occupied for many hours I think.
Cheers,
Michael
I liked the idea, but not the metal flute sound, and as I said, I've done nothing about it until now. I really do want the fun of a challenge and a long-term learning curve, plus the eventual fun of joining in at pub ceilidh nights.
As most Irish music is in D and G from what I've gathered, I should be fine. Maybe if I become a half decent player but want to try different styles in future then a good keyed wood instrument might be an idea. For now the Seery will keep me occupied for many hours I think.
Cheers,
Michael
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AaronMalcomb
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Sounds like you have a good attitude, Michael, which should help your progress.
Just note that there are differences between blowing a boehm and blowing an Irish flute. Blowing vibrato is verboten. Tones on Irish flute are traditionally strong and clear. If you want to decorate a note with vibrato, it's usually done by closing and opening a tone hole below the note (almost a flutter).
The biggest challange is to let your lips do the work and not your lungs.
Just note that there are differences between blowing a boehm and blowing an Irish flute. Blowing vibrato is verboten. Tones on Irish flute are traditionally strong and clear. If you want to decorate a note with vibrato, it's usually done by closing and opening a tone hole below the note (almost a flutter).
The biggest challange is to let your lips do the work and not your lungs.
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Michael31856
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Cheers Aaron. I know vibrato is not traditionally part of Irish music, and I don't intend to try to 'over-play' or to be too clever. James Galway, for example, is great at what he does, but it's not really to my liking.
I love the flutter as you call it, in the Irish style, and am looking foward to experimenting with that and the occasional vibrato to see what works best. Mostly in airs of course, as there's not too much room in frantic jigs and reels (I do wonder about the stamina required for those..!)
Basically, I'm very tuned in to other worldly things, and am a naural healer too. Music is very much part of it, and I think it's a side of myself I've let be for too long. When I hear live ceilidh bands who really get to the heart, I can tell by their energy where they're coming from, as can everyone else.
When the tears in the eyes are not down to alcohol, and there's no concern about 'perfect' technique, then you have magic in your midst. That's why Celtic music is so damned good, and always will be.
May I be so blessed as to bring tears and joy one day.
Michael
I love the flutter as you call it, in the Irish style, and am looking foward to experimenting with that and the occasional vibrato to see what works best. Mostly in airs of course, as there's not too much room in frantic jigs and reels (I do wonder about the stamina required for those..!)
Basically, I'm very tuned in to other worldly things, and am a naural healer too. Music is very much part of it, and I think it's a side of myself I've let be for too long. When I hear live ceilidh bands who really get to the heart, I can tell by their energy where they're coming from, as can everyone else.
When the tears in the eyes are not down to alcohol, and there's no concern about 'perfect' technique, then you have magic in your midst. That's why Celtic music is so damned good, and always will be.
May I be so blessed as to bring tears and joy one day.
Michael
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Jayhawk
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Michael - sounds like your going to be in good shape when your flute arrives. Being able to get a sound out of any flute can be a chore for some folks, but the Irish flute is still a bit more on the difficult side to get a sound on all the notes (especially the low ones and the high ones - the middle notes are typically a breeze).
In the cheap flute sticky up top you ask what's challenging about the Seery - and I'll take a stab at it (since I have both a Seery and a Sweetheart flute - both referenced in the sticky) - the embouchure is more demanding. I don't think it's impossible to play at all, even for a new player, but to get it to really sing takes a developed embouchure. So in your case, with your wanting to grow with the flute, I think the Seery will be ideal. I've had mine for two years now and it keeps getting better (but in reality, it's me growing and coming to know the flute better). I still wouldn't say I've "maxed" out my Seery, but I like the way it sounds these days most of the time...yet I still have days when my embouchure is weak, I'm tired, the full moon is out, or someone is poking a voodoo doll of me when I don't sound as good on the seery as I'd like.
I really like my Seery, and it'll double as a billy club if needed.
Eric
In the cheap flute sticky up top you ask what's challenging about the Seery - and I'll take a stab at it (since I have both a Seery and a Sweetheart flute - both referenced in the sticky) - the embouchure is more demanding. I don't think it's impossible to play at all, even for a new player, but to get it to really sing takes a developed embouchure. So in your case, with your wanting to grow with the flute, I think the Seery will be ideal. I've had mine for two years now and it keeps getting better (but in reality, it's me growing and coming to know the flute better). I still wouldn't say I've "maxed" out my Seery, but I like the way it sounds these days most of the time...yet I still have days when my embouchure is weak, I'm tired, the full moon is out, or someone is poking a voodoo doll of me when I don't sound as good on the seery as I'd like.
I really like my Seery, and it'll double as a billy club if needed.
Eric