Polishing a Flute's Bore or My 2nd Peeve with Mopane

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greenspiderweb
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Post by greenspiderweb »

Lambchop wrote: Casey's Website wrote:
If you have one of my flutes, please send it to me for servicing a few years or so after purchase. I will rewrap the tenons, check the oiling (and chastise you for not oiling), and generally make sure that you are maintaining it correctly. I will also check the tuning and repolish the bore as well.
Yes, that does apply to his Professional Flutes, like Jordan's. But it's not included with the Folk Flute as stated here:
Casey's website wrote: While our professional flutes are offered a "check-up" at the first year at no cost, we cannot offer this free service for the Folk Flute. Should you wish, we offer a Folk Flute check-up at USD 40 plus shipping.
Which I suppose is compensation for the low cost of the Folk Flute in the first place. But, it is actually 1/5 the cost of the flute itself with the $10 shipping, at $50. The number of Folk Flutes to actually be sent back for this service is probably on the low side, I would think.
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Follow Up

Post by Sillydill »

O.K. I'll try to respond to the other additions to this thread in chronological order:

Unseen, Teak Oil is not oil from teak, all that I know of is based on Tung Oil with the addition of polymers and UV prohibitors.

Blackbeer, the Linseed Oil from Daniel Smith is pure refined oil, artist use it as a binder for oil based paints. It does not seem to build up at all.

Greenspiderweb, you might be really surprised by how much the response of the Folk Flute will be improved with a shiny bore!

Jon C., Excellent! I'm ashamed I didn't think of this my self! :oops: The scotch bright (white) sounds like the perfect polishing tool, not only will it not grab or eat away to much, the pad is resilient to make good contact with the bore.

Lambchop, I'm an Engineer it's in my genes, I can't help but tweak and modify things.

Hoovorf, the Linseed Oil that I use is not the wood finishing type. It does not build up nor is it gummy.

Jim Stone, what type of bore oil are you using? I will admit to being a bit hyper attentive to my flutes, I even keep a pen light with my flutes so I can inspect inside the head after I mop it out. I'll let the readers draw their own conclusions about Mopane.

Loren, nice albino squirrel! :)

Chas, I like the tone of Blackwood! I agree that texture is part of Boxwood's tonal qualities.


Another possibility may be that moisture in my breath is just more prone to raising these whiskers (due to, acidity or enzymes??). My wife has told me before that my breath smelled like it could strip paint, I just didn't think she was being literal! :lol:
Last edited by Sillydill on Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by tin tin »

I've owned two mopane flutes and haven't noticed this phenomenon. I've now had my Copley flute for well over a year-and-a-half, and the bore is still glassy and smooth. And I don't stick to a regular oiling regimen---I was pretty regular during the first month of breaking it in, but otherwise I oil it maybe every 4 or 5 months (using almond oil).
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Post by Casey Burns »

Hello fluters,

On occasional cuts of wood (including blackwood and Mopane) these whiskers can be a problem. Basically, there is always some run out of the grain and where this happens the grain raises as a result of the wetting and drying cycle. This results in a defacto narrowing of the bore which can sometimes affect tone quality. Usually, however, its the headjoint bore itself which has shrunk a bit (usually in the .05mm max range) resulting in a minor loss of tone, requiring rereaming.

A careful reading my care instructions will indicate that I recommend sending the flute back to me after 6 months to a year or as needed for rereaming, which usually solves this. Folk Flute customers have to pay a small fee for this service but owners of my other flutes (including the 3 piece Rudall flute illustrated in this thread) simply have to pay for postage. Unfortunately, few of my clients take advantage of this service.

I strongly caution anyone before tinkering with your flutes in the above described manner that doing so without the basis of experience puts your instrument at great risk! Damages resulting from such activities are not covered under any warranty and tinkering with the flute in this manner voids any further warranty, at least for my flutes! It is best to consult with the makers directly, instead of seeking advice on this or any other list where the level of experience varies.

Time to lay my cards frankly on the table: Although its great to see the enthusiasm on this list, the unmediated advice presented here frequently appears to be on the level of the blind leading the blind. I am not the only maker who feels this. From my perspective of 25 years worth of experience, I frequently find this very frustrating, especially when I commonly have to respond to bizarre questions from clients who read something scary on this list. I'd rather put that time into flute making.

Now everyone will be freaked out by bore whiskers! What next?

As to the techniques demonstrated for bore polishing - I would not use steel wool, at least in the headjoint. My method instead is to use a tapering in width sheet of 240 or 320 grit sand paper (usually 4" on the wide end and 1" on the narrow end, over the 8.5" length) taped to a 5/16" steel dowel. This is usually wrapped around the dowel, inserted into the bore, and then spun very briefly at a good rate of speed (1700 RPM with the dowel mounted on the lathe) followed by oiling with the raw linseed oil (which doesn't gum up a bore). Spinning it longer than a few moments can alter the shape of the bore. This usually follows rereaming of at least the headjoint to restore the voice (usually the body doesn't need it). I have been using this method for most of my career.

This usually leaves a matte finish. Finer abrasives can be used for a polished bore. However, I personally do not find a polished bore to be an advantage on many flutes including mine, and feel that some "tooth" is necessary and provides the "resistance" to the voicing that I prefer.

Steel wool can sometimes suddenly rearrange itself on the dowel and all of a sudden get stuck, or even cause a split when its all of a sudden too wide for the bore. At the embouchure, steel wool has a tendancy to round over the sharp edge where the embouchure meets the bore, with a very drastic effect on the voicing (especially the response of the bottom D). Please do not do this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Casey Burns
www.caseyburnsflutes.com
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Post by greenspiderweb »

Casey Burns wrote: Time to lay my cards frankly on the table: Although its great to see the enthusiasm on this list, the unmediated advice presented here frequently appears to be on the level of the blind leading the blind. I am not the only maker who feels this. From my perspective of 25 years worth of experience, I frequently find this very frustrating, especially when I commonly have to respond to bizarre questions from clients who read something scary on this list. I'd rather put that time into flute making.

Now everyone will be freaked out by bore whiskers! What next?
It's just human nature to want to solve a problem on our own, just because we can. It's been that way since we've been on this planet, but after 25 years in the business, I can understand that things like misinformation might bug you more than it used to.

Frustrating? Yes, people are like that at times! But they can be good too-this list has probably helped you along the way a little, just as you have helped us; so as in any relationship, it's give and take.

I'm sure that all concerned here appreciate your input on the subject, and now that we understand these things a little better, from your perspective, and with your generous time spent in explanation, we are more knowledgeable and less likely to spread the wrong information.

I think Mopane is a great flute wood, and it's popularity today has undoubtably been helped greatly from your introduction of it in your line of flutes. You can be proud of your flutes and your skills, and a big thank you for them! My Folk Flute is very impressive, to say the least. Keep up the good work, Casey, and I hope we fluters won't get you too upset in the future. :)
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Post by Sillydill »

My motives for composing this piece were charitable and pure! I thought to provide this information as a public service to others who might like to do the same as I have.

Alas, I can not accept responsibility for anyone’s actions but my own.

I apologize if I've caused any offense. I did not intend to discredit any maker nor Mopane wood its self.

It was an oversight not to mention Casey Burns's tune-up policy for his professional model flutes:
Servicing your Instrument: If you have one of my flutes, please send it to me for servicing a few years or so after purchase. I will rewrap the tenons, check the oiling (chastise you for not oiling), and generally make sure that you are maintaining it correctly. I will also check the tuning and repolish the bore as well. Please send it insured and enclose return postage.
I will admit that his response has left me feeling like a marshmallow on a stick! :sniffle:

I understand that he does not want owners mucking up his flutes.

I contacted Casey, prior to performing this polishing of the bore and outlined my plan. This was his response:
The regime sounds good. Make sure that it is raw linseed oil, not the hardware store variety. Rubbing a rag up and down will raise hairs and whiskers. The steel wool treatment will be okay as long as you do nothing to dull the inside edges at the embouchure or change the overall bore profile. Some tooth to the bore gives resistance to the embouchure - something I prefer - thus you might try it in stages.
It is simply my personal preference to have a flute with a shiny bore. I believe it lowers the resistance, speeds up articulation and response, imparts a non-metallic ring to the tone, as well as improving the flute’s projection. However extreme diligence is necessary not to remove extra material from the bore of the flute!

Proceed at your own discretion, knowing your own abilities and willingness to accept the consequences.

All the Best!

Jordan
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Post by brianormond »

-FWIW -I stopped into Daniel Smith in Seattle a few weeks ago to resupply with untreated linseed oil, but found nothing in their current offerings which hasn't had volatiles added. They previously sold an untreated oil, but a salesperson said he was told in a recent staff training seminar all their oils now have drier(s) added. The warning of "spontaneous combustion" of oily waste on the label of their previously untreated product begged the question.

I'm switching to almond oil a la Blackbeer as a result.
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Daniel Smith Linseed Oil

Post by frchristo »

This question about Daniel Smith linseed oil is frustrating. :swear: I've been told twice (once just today) that the cold-pressed has no additives. According to what I've been told, it's just the raw oil.

What's up???
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Post by chas »

brianormond wrote:-FWIW -I stopped into Daniel Smith in Seattle a few weeks ago to resupply with untreated linseed oil, but found nothing in their current offerings which hasn't had volatiles added. They previously sold an untreated oil, but a salesperson said he was told in a recent staff training seminar all their oils now have drier(s) added. The warning of "spontaneous combustion" of oily waste on the label of their previously untreated product begged the question.
So adding something like acetone or alcohol or some other volatile makes it less combustible??? Call the alchemists.
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Post by Denny »

enjoy :D
Last edited by Denny on Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Daniel Smith Linseed Oil

Post by frchristo »

Daniel Smith sells several types of linseed oil. :-? The cold-pressed is still available and, as I said in an earlier post, I have been assured by two different employees (one just today) that it is raw oil with no added driers.
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Post by Lambchop »

Sillydill wrote:My motives for composing this piece were charitable and pure! I thought to provide this information as a public service to others who might like to do the same as I have.

Alas, I can not accept responsibility for anyone’s actions but my own.

A good way to do that, Jordan, would be to disclose that you tinkered with the flutes you put up for sale, so that they might not be truly representative of the maker's art.
Last edited by Lambchop on Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Loren »

Regarding linseed oil, I wouldn't get too worked up about it: At von Huene they've used boiled :o that's right, boiled :boggle: linseed oil on their instruments for years, additives and all. And, to be honest, I've rarely seen a better final finish on similar instruments anywhere. Of course they do mix other ingredients in, but still, the base linseed is boiled stock straight from ace hardware.

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Post by Loren »

Jordan wrote:

"Loren, nice albino squirrel! smile "

Wild looking, isn't he/she? I photographed this guy, and his or her albino sibling here in Boston this fall - I was cycling home after picking up my dog's remains (ashes), and feeling rather down, when I stumbled across two albino squirrels, red eyes and all. So, I took a couple of quick photos, and there you have it. Took my mind off my loss for a few minutes anyway.

From what I understand, true albino squirrels like these are very rare in the wild, apperently they usuall don't survive till maturity.

Loren
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Post by s1m0n »

There's a colony of white squirrels in Toronto, and a few other around north america.

http://www.whitesquirrels.ca/why.htm
And now there was no doubt that the trees were really moving - moving in and out through one another as if in a complicated country dance. ('And I suppose,' thought Lucy, 'when trees dance, it must be a very, very country dance indeed.')

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