Flute models

fiddlecrazy · Post by **fiddlecrazy** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:11 pm

Hi Folks,
I need a little advice. I'm getting a new flute from Jon, and I need to choose what model I want. I can get a Rudall and Rose smaller-holed flute, Rudall and Carte larger-holed flute, or a Pratten. I'm stumped. I've heard that Prattens get a nice, big tone, but that they also take a lot of air. But once my embouchre develops well, filling a Pratten shouldn't be too hard, would it? Unless I can be assured that a Pratten wouldn't be too hard to fill, I think I'll go with the R&C. But I'm really not sure. As you can tell, I'm new to all this, and need some advice.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Max

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:26 pm

Hi Max,

I wouldn't use difficultyas a criterion.

Get the kind of flute you want for the kind of playing you want to do.

If power is the most important thing get the Pratten. If balance of tone and a great second octave are what you're after get a Rudall. If you want a little of both get the Rudall Carte.

However, understand that a great deal of how the flute sounds will be because of your embouchre not your model.

Listen to some players and see who you like and what they're playing.

Doc

chas · Post by **chas** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:36 pm

I'll second what Doc said -- in the end you'll sound like you to a great extent. I'll point out one more thing, though. It's likely that whatever style of flute you learn on will be the style that you prefer later on, once you've cut your teeth. I learned on a small-holed flute, and, while I love my Olwell Nicholson, I'm having him make me a small-holed flute. OTOH, I did have a large-holed flute already when I got the small-holed one, so it may just be that I started out with small-holed genes.

planxtydt · Post by **planxtydt** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:40 pm

Pratten all the way! Seriously though, don't be put off the pratten due to the inevitable struggle of developing a suitable embouchure, it's well worth it.

David

fiddlecrazy · Post by **fiddlecrazy** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:31 pm

Thanks for the help guys.

Listen to some players and see who you like and what they're playing.

Well, yeah, the main reason I am so interested in the Pratten is because I really like the powerful sound of Conal O Grada. He plays a Pratten style flute, doesn't he?

Max

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:53 pm

I sure wouldn't be afraid to try the Pratten if that's
what you want. Once you have the embouchure,
a little air goes a long way and makes a lot
of sound.

What's a Rudall-Carte? Info please.

Jon C. · Post by **Jon C.** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:25 pm

What's a Rudall-Carte? Info please.

Hi Jim,
The flute is based on a later model Rudall and Carte 7000 series. A little bigger bore, and larger tone holes.
Jon

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... &start=240

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:29 pm

It is really a matter of influence I am highly influenced by Kevin Crawford so that is why I am planing on getting a Rudall I like the sound of his playing but my style is all my own. If a player you wish you could sound like plays a Pratten then get the Pratten. From another point of veiw the Rudall will have the ability to vary the tone color more whereas the PRatten will be loud and powerful if you play at a noisy session the Pratten may be what you should get if you plan on recording more then power might not be as important. Disclamer: The style of ITM I like most is not nessaccarily the most tradtional, You should try to devolp your own sound with different influences not just one.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:04 pm

fiddlecrazy wrote:Thanks for the help guys.

Listen to some players and see who you like and what they're playing.
Well, yeah, the main reason I am so interested in the Pratten is because I really like the powerful sound of Conal O Grada. He plays a Pratten style flute, doesn't he?

Max

Conal plays a cocus Hamilton, so yeah, that's a descendant of the Pratten design.

His "Top of Coom" recording, though, I believe was played using a Rudall & Rose.

--James

Tom O'Farrell · Post by **Tom O'Farrell** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:10 am

One consideration is finger stretch, especially on the lower d to e, on the Pratten's I have tried it was too much for me, also the g to a was a bit much but that I could live with. The Burns folk flute however is really easy and if the rudall & carte has spacings nearer the folk flute I would find it no problem. I don't have small hands just a history of playing boehm system and of course no stretch on these.

andrewK · Post by **andrewK** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:37 am

Unseen 122, if you are so influenced by Kevin Crawford you could like him be sponsored by Mr Grinter to promote his flutes !
Of course if the fluteplaying public does not know of the arrangement they may be mislead as to WHY Kevin plays what he does !

michael_coleman · Post by **michael_coleman** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:53 pm

What style of flute have you been playing on?

I was playing an M&E original model before I bought a flute from Jon, so I tended to lean towards his smaller holed Rudall and Rose. The major thing that sold me on the flute was its playability, complexity of tone, and extremely sweet 2nd octave. I played the large holed Rudall and his Pratten, but kept moving towards the smaller holed Rudall. I think when I get my 8 keyed from him....I'll see if I can get either the large holed, or somehow getting something between.

fiddlecrazy · Post by **fiddlecrazy** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:45 pm

What style of flute have you been playing on?

Well, I've been playing one of Casey Burns' Folk Flutes. I'm not really sure what it's modeled after, but it doesn't have big holes. That's the reason I was worried about switching to a larger holed flute, but seeing what people here have to say, I think I'll try the change anyway. I really want to play a Pratten flute, I love the big powerful sound.

His "Top of Coom" recording, though, I believe was played using a Rudall & Rose.

Really? Do you know why? Did he play a Rudall back then, and switch later?

Max

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:00 pm

Yup, James is right. Conal recorded Top of Coom on a Rudall with Fentum head. I guess he recorded that before he got his Hamilton. Which goes to show how much the player affects the tone.

Listen to Jack (Murphystout) on his Hamilton/Byrne comparisons. Jack is a fairly new player (3 years I think he told me) but you can already hear that Jack has his own sound. The differences in tone between the Byrne and Hamilton are pretty minor considering the difference in design.

As per hole-size, finger stretch, I think most adult hands can handle big holes and stretch. It will take practice to adjust though for some the discomfort is too much.

Cheers,
Aaron

kkrell · Post by **kkrell** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:11 pm

fiddlecrazy wrote:

His "Top of Coom" recording, though, I believe was played using a Rudall & Rose.
Really? Do you know why? Did he play a Rudall back then, and switch later?

Max

Well, I know that the Fentum head cracked when he arrived in the U.S. for the Kennedy Center concert:

May 18, 2000
Tommy Hayes, Conal O'Greda, Kevin Glacken, Mary Green and Ronan Brown perform tradition and contemporary Irish music. Irish Festival-Sponsored by Ireland's Department of Education and the Kennedy Center Department of Education
Featured Artist(s): Tommy Hayes, Conal O'Greda, Kevin Glacken, Mary Green, and Ronan Brown

http://www.kennedy-center.org/programs/ ... chive.html
SEARCH for "Conal" for a link to play the performance, or by the Date above

Kevin Krell