Embouchure question: teeth placement

[Cyberknight]

I just want to say thank you once again to all the people who helped me out on this thread! I've still got a long way to go, but my embouchure definitely is improving since I've implemented this advice.

I think one of the main issues I was having was forgetting about my bottom lip. It seems the bottom lip is important for making sure the airstream is tight enough, as I started to realize when I examined all the pictures you guys posted. Before, I was sort of folding back my bottom lip and trying to keep the airstream tight using only my top lip, which is (I think) why I developed such a weird technique (plastering my top lip against my teeth) to get it tight enough to make a sound.

For whatever reason, when I focus on using BOTH lips to keep the airstream tight, I end up with an embouchure that looks more "normal" and seems to work a lot better. I also don't need to offset my lips, and I can blow straighter into the embouchure hole.

[kkrell]

I just want to say thank you once again to all the people who helped me out on this thread! I've still got a long way to go, but my embouchure definitely is improving since I've implemented this advice.

I think one of the main issues I was having was forgetting about my bottom lip. It seems the bottom lip is important for making sure the airstream is tight enough, as I started to realize when I examined all the pictures you guys posted. Before, I was sort of folding back my bottom lip and trying to keep the airstream tight using only my top lip, which is (I think) why I developed such a weird technique (plastering my top lip against my teeth) to get it tight enough to make a sound.

For whatever reason, when I focus on using BOTH lips to keep the airstream tight, I end up with an embouchure that looks more "normal" and seems to work a lot better. I also don't need to offset my lips, and I can blow straighter into the embouchure hole.

Congrats.

[zen]

Cyberknight - I'm the fluteplayer with the cupid's bow upper lip that Terry referenced. I haven't lurked on C&F for ages but visited yesterday and checked out this post as embouchure is something that I have struggled with since I picked up the wooden flute. I have exactly the same issue as you - my embouchure is a wide rectangular shape rather than a beautiful rounded shape and no matter how I try it's impossible to achieve that rounded shape. So the airstream is quite diffused and if I am not super attentive does split - easily seen on the mouthpiece. When it splits, I lose tone, volume, blow flat and the sound is breathy - not nice and I lose a lot of air which affects breath control. It was very tiring to play for any length of time. I hadn't realised that this was an anatomical issue until I explored it with Terry.

I learned to compensate by rotating the headpiece very slightly in towards me and keeping the airstream focused down into the flute. I am not too sure how I do this - engaging the muscles of the upper and lower lips and lots of long tone practice with a tuner. I used to be very conscious about my embouchure but now I just focus on trying not to let too much air escape and obtaining good tone. I don't blow out of the side of my mouth - I need to centre myself to play and this seems to unbalance me. i think I try and use the cupid's bow bit of my lips to help direct the airflow down.

Terry's rectangular embouchure hole was a big help - it seems to capture more air than the oval shaped one on my Grinter. However, I find the more I play the easier it is to get good tone out of the Grinter. Playing every day makes a big difference - but sometimes I wonder why I ever picked up the flute as it hasn't been an easy journey.

Terry - it would be great if someone did come up with a flute embouchure designed for people with teardrop lips!
Cheers
Zena

[Cyberknight]

Cyberknight - I'm the fluteplayer with the cupid's bow upper lip that Terry referenced. I haven't lurked on C&F for ages but visited yesterday and checked out this post as embouchure is something that I have struggled with since I picked up the wooden flute. I have exactly the same issue as you - my embouchure is a wide rectangular shape rather than a beautiful rounded shape and no matter how I try it's impossible to achieve that rounded shape. So the airstream is quite diffused and if I am not super attentive does split - easily seen on the mouthpiece. When it splits, I lose tone, volume, blow flat and the sound is breathy - not nice and I lose a lot of air which affects breath control. It was very tiring to play for any length of time. I hadn't realised that this was an anatomical issue until I explored it with Terry.

I learned to compensate by rotating the headpiece very slightly in towards me and keeping the airstream focused down into the flute. I am not too sure how I do this - engaging the muscles of the upper and lower lips and lots of long tone practice with a tuner. I used to be very conscious about my embouchure but now I just focus on trying not to let too much air escape and obtaining good tone. I don't blow out of the side of my mouth - I need to centre myself to play and this seems to unbalance me. i think I try and use the cupid's bow bit of my lips to help direct the airflow down.

Terry's rectangular embouchure hole was a big help - it seems to capture more air than the oval shaped one on my Grinter. However, I find the more I play the easier it is to get good tone out of the Grinter. Playing every day makes a big difference - but sometimes I wonder why I ever picked up the flute as it hasn't been an easy journey.

Terry - it would be great if someone did come up with a flute embouchure designed for people with teardrop lips!
Cheers
Zena

Interesting! I myself have recently adopted an asymmetric embouchure that has been working very well for me. I blow slightly out of the left side of my mouth, and I also hold the flute at a very slight downward angle, and that seems to work for some reason. Finally I'm in tune in both octaves and get a nice sound. But I'll keep experimenting!

But I do always find that I can get a really nice sound out of silver flutes - a louder and purer sound than my Copley. Makes me wonder if I should try out a rectangular embouchure.

[Terry McGee]

Interesting! I myself have recently adopted an asymmetric embouchure that has been working very well for me. I blow slightly out of the left side of my mouth, and I also hold the flute at a very slight downward angle, and that seems to work for some reason. Finally I'm in tune in both octaves and get a nice sound. But I'll keep experimenting!

But I do always find that I can get a really nice sound out of silver flutes - a louder and purer sound than my Copley. Makes me wonder if I should try out a rectangular embouchure.

Given that experience, I'd certainly recommend giving it a go, Cyberknight. I'd describe the Rounded Rectangle (as you'd see on a modern metal flute) as a very "forgiving" embouchure hole. It will give good results even when not perfectly deployed. Which is probably why it became the default on Boehm flutes quite some time back.

I've been revisiting it myself recently, noting how it can make a tiny bore, tiny hole flute (my Grey Larsen Preferred model) really boom out, far beyond what you'd reasonably expect of such a small bore flute. And, in the specific matter of dealing with a Cupid's Bow lip, once the issue has been identified and the player alerted to the need to play to the side, it can make aiming the jet much less fussy. You've got more "edge" to aim at.

The easiest way forward would probably be to contact the maker of your flute and see what he has to offer.

And a quick word to up and coming flute makers on the same topic. This is an embouchure worth offering as part of your repertoire. Happy to help you to try it out, just drop me a note.

[Cyberknight]

Interesting! I myself have recently adopted an asymmetric embouchure that has been working very well for me. I blow slightly out of the left side of my mouth, and I also hold the flute at a very slight downward angle, and that seems to work for some reason. Finally I'm in tune in both octaves and get a nice sound. But I'll keep experimenting!

But I do always find that I can get a really nice sound out of silver flutes - a louder and purer sound than my Copley. Makes me wonder if I should try out a rectangular embouchure.

Given that experience, I'd certainly recommend giving it a go, Cyberknight. I'd describe the Rounded Rectangle (as you'd see on a modern metal flute) as a very "forgiving" embouchure hole. It will give good results even when not perfectly deployed. Which is probably why it became the default on Boehm flutes quite some time back.

I've been revisiting it myself recently, noting how it can make a tiny bore, tiny hole flute (my Grey Larsen Preferred model) really boom out, far beyond what you'd reasonably expect of such a small bore flute. And, in the specific matter of dealing with a Cupid's Bow lip, once the issue has been identified and the player alerted to the need to play to the side, it can make aiming the jet much less fussy. You've got more "edge" to aim at.

The easiest way forward would probably be to contact the maker of your flute and see what he has to offer.

And a quick word to up and coming flute makers on the same topic. This is an embouchure worth offering as part of your repertoire. Happy to help you to try it out, just drop me a note.

Thanks for the advice, Terry!

One of my friends plays one of your flutes, and I believe it has a sort of in-between embouchure hole - not quite a rounded rectangle, but not quite oval either. I've tried this flute briefly and it IS quite easy to play and has a lovely sound.

I believe Copeland makes flutes with less traditional, more rectangular embouchure holes as well. I'll ask them when I finally get off the waiting list for a wooden 6-key flute.