The Perennial Question

[toffle]

Hi Folks,
It's been awhile since I've been on the boards. I'm a long-time dabbler with no budget to speak of. Through various career changes over the last decade I've kept my hand in the game, and am feeling quite comfortable with my low and high whistles. I'm a little less successful with the Hall Crystal flute that I was given, but it is rewarding enough for me to want to do more.

A local chap is selling an unused McNeela Cygnet for $250CDN.

A quick internet search shows a couple of things: The McNeela reputation is spotty, with a few overly-effusive reviews mixed among the more critical posts. The other thing I've found is that virtually EVERY flute related search turns up a McNeela ad. Google, YouTube, whatever - It's McNeela here, there and everywhere.I can't imagine what they must be paying for marketing. Whatever it may be, it makes me extra cautious of lending my trust.

My question: Is there a flute out there that would be a better use of my meagre $250CDN? I know that nothing comes for free, but sometimes bargains do fall from the sky.

Any hints on where to look besides the omnipresent McN***** would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Tom

[paddler]

I'd look at an Essential flute from Geoffrey Ellis. It is cylindrical bore with a tapered head, rather than a conventional cylindrical head with tapered body, but they play very well and are very well in tune. It is difficult to find anything that competes with them at that price range.

You can learn more about them here on this video by Blayne Chastain of the Irish Flute Store

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpD1Om16E-c

New from Geoffrey they are a bit more expensive than your stated price, but there is one for sale currently on this forum here which is getting close:

https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewt ... 5&t=115529

[kkrell]

If you can find a flute player who can check out that McNeela, than that may be your best bet at the price. Otherwise, maybe a Doug Tipple cylindrical. It probably doesn't help that most purchases would likely require import to Canada & any associated customs fees, delivery & taxes.

[toffle]

Thank you both for your replies.

I will definitely look into the Ellis.

The seller of the Cygnet is located about an hour away, so I will likely give it a try. I’m just wary of the whiff of snake oil I get from the Mcneela marketing.

Cheers,
Tom

[Moof]

]I’m just wary of the whiff of snake oil I get from the Mcneela marketing.

I'm in the UK, and I find exactly the same thing. Even on a search with a maker's name in double quotes, I still have to wade through the McNeela ads.

I get the impression most of their own-brand instruments are factory made in China and south Asia. That doesn't mean they're poor quality, of course, but it does make me wonder if I might find a hand finished one for a similar price secondhand. Specially if I'm willing to wait for it to come up for sale.

[bigsciota]

I have a couple students who have that McNeela flute. They are… fine. There are a number of flutes I would much rather have as a beginner, but at that price point things get a little more difficult. If you test it out and like it, that’s not a terrible price for it and it would be a fine enough starter instrument. But be sure you like it and it sounds like it’s roughly in tune before buying; they’re mass-produced instruments (note that a lot of his instruments say things like “hand-finished” rather than “handmade”) that have a less-than-stellar QC process.

If a Tony Dixon 3 piece flute is available around you, especially used, that would be in your price range and IMO better than the McNeela. NOT the one or two piece polymer ones that are around $100 or the “flute and whistle head” three piece set, the three piece Irish flute, which is modeled more after a “normal” Irish flute. The one and two piece are completely different and IMO not worth it.

A Ralph Sweet Maple flute would also be in your price range and, for the money, are decent. Again, that would be the used market, I’ve seen them come up fairly cheap.

The best option IMO would be if you could get your hands on a used WD Sweet (son of Ralph) “Shannon” flute. It’s what I started on and I’ve seen them come up for that amount of money used. I don’t think he make that model anymore, but it was an excellent beginner’s flute and well worth the money.

There’s an outside chance that a Copley (delrin without rings), M&E, or Thompson student model flute comes up used in that price range. If you see any of those, jump on it, they’re also well worth it.

[pancelticpiper]

I'd look at an Essential flute from Geoffrey Ellis. It is cylindrical bore with a tapered head...they play very well and are very well in tune.

It is difficult to find anything that competes with them at that price range.

You can learn more about them here on this video by Blayne Chastain of the Irish Flute Store

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpD1Om16E-c

Wow those are really nice.

It does sound to me like he's got quite a bit of reverb/processing on the flutes, which I could do without.

[toffle]

Thanks for all the suggestions. This really is a fine community!

Oddly enough, I'm being ghosted by the guy who listed the McNeela for sale. (The listing is still there, but he's gone radio silent)

I've currently got a line on a Canadian made flute that might suit my needs. If things work out I will post more later.

Cheers,
Tom,

[jim stone]

My reservation about the Ellis, which I owned, is that I couldn't make the rt hand stretch. Concern is that I have largish hands and often play Prattens.

[paddler]

My reservation about the Ellis, which I owned, is that I couldn't make the rt hand stretch. Concern is that I have largish hands and often play Prattens.

The increased right hand finger stretch is a common characteristic of flutes based on a cylindrical body bore and tapered head design. It is not a peculiarity of Ellis flutes per se, just the Essential flute design which has the cylindrical body.
In contrast, a tapered body design shortens the reach a bit, but it also gives the maker the opportunity to introduce perturbations in the body bore profile which can be used to improve ergonomics further.

[Geoffrey Ellis]

My reservation about the Ellis, which I owned, is that I couldn't make the rt hand stretch. Concern is that I have largish hands and often play Prattens.

Yes, this is an issue for some players, but as paddler says it's a cylindrical bore feature. I was inspired to create the Essential Flute line because I loved a particular Olwell bamboo flute that I have. I wanted to make a wooden version (since sourcing bamboo is damn tricky unless you live in Florida , and while the finger spread is pretty much identical to the Olwell it is more than most conical bore flutes in the same key.

[jim stone]

Thanks. I'll just say that I've played the Olwell low D cane flute for many years without difficulty. In all other respects I liked your flute.

[Geoffrey Ellis]

Thanks. I'll just say that I've played the Olwell low D cane flute for many years without difficulty. In all other respects I liked your flute.

It's possible that comfort would be impacted by the overall reach. Meaning, while the spacing of the finger holes themselves are very close to the Olwell, the finger holes as a group (meaning all of the finger holes on the Essential Flute) are a good 10mm farther down the bore from the embouchure hole compared to the Olwell, and that can certainly make a difference.

[pancelticpiper]

This is an interesting-looking thing

https://www.ebay.com/itm/335445369836?_ ... R7Ku4vOLZQ

Have you tried one? I'm curious.

[Geoffrey Ellis]

That's an interesting creation, though he does say it's a one-off. I'd be very curious to know how it plays/sounds. It does hark back to an earlier discussion about the Fajardo wedge concept:

https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewt ... =2&t=48857

But in that thread we were discussing end blown flutes/whistles.

I've never had an opportunity to try any flutes from fellow makers (such as Doug Tipple) who have managed to implement a wedge into their design, so I can only speculate about how the flute behaves. I'm not a huge fan of the wedge for this sort of flute, but it is quite possible that when one gets the proportions just right it works like a charm. I did quite a lot of experimenting and never cordially loved them, but I can't deny that they balanced the tuning and they are way better than nothing at all!

But given the pain-in-the-neck factor in making tapered reamers (for wood) or shaping metal into a taper (using whatever method--mandrels, hydraulic press, etc.), the wedge approach has a lot to recommend it.

Plus I think the asking price is quite modest if the flute performs well. Even using prefabricated aluminum tubing, there is plenty of custom work done on that, including the creation of the wedge insert itself. Hopefully someone on C&F will buy it and report back!