Lizzo and the Laurent

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Steve Bliven
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Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by Steve Bliven »

Lizzo visited the Dayton Millercollection at the US Library of Congress the other day. There is video of her playing the Laurent flute...

The collection is remarkable. I did some work there a few years back on their Native American flutes and could have spent weeks digging into the countless drawers of instruments.

Best wishes.

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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

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kkrell wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:43 am NOTE: Requires sign in or subscription to view the link.

Not from here.
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by Conical bore »

She also played a few notes during her concert in DC, where the flute was brought (carefully) to the stage and then taken back to the Library of Congress. The NPR web site has an article about it, with a video clip. Warning, possibly not safe for work depending on how you feel about her stage costume.

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/28/11255648 ... te-concert

The link posted earlier might be better if it can be accessed. I'm not sure she did the flute world any favors with the stage concert bit, but maybe it will get a few people interested in flutes.
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

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Conical bore wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:25 am I'm not sure she did the flute world any favors with the stage concert bit, but maybe it will get a few people interested in flutes.
TBH the number of people who know what a Laurent flute is probably went up by about a thousandfold overnight, so that's certainly something. I can tell you as someone who works in a classical music radio station, she's someone who has broad appeal and does give a lot of younger people a bit more of a connection to the instrument. She did a very silly SNL skit (redundant, I know!) about the flute and classical music (Beethoven, IIRC) a while ago and anecdotally I heard a lot of chatter about it, so again, lots of eyes/ears reached.

I won't lie and say I'm a Lizzo superfan or anything but she is genuinely enthusiastic and seems like a good person, so I'm pretty happy she's also a flute ambassador.

The first 40 seconds or so in this video are her playing in a bit more sedate setting, she's quite a good player! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mb62QNXY0g
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by PB+J »

Speaking as a guy who does history for a living, the whole response is weird. As far as I can see, people now believe this was James Madison's cherished flute, and that its unique in the world and a priceless artifact of history. As far as I know James Madison didn't play the flute, at all, it was just a gift to him from Laurent, who wanted to promote his work and honor the Republic, which isn't meaningless but isn't what people think. The Dayton Miller collection includes TWENTY Laurent flutes, and the are 185 known to exist, so while they are interesting and impressive and rare, they aren't as unique as claimed. (https://blogs.loc.gov/loc/2018/10/the-m ... tal-flute/)

The Smithsonian/LOC is happy to play this game. Years ago I did some work with them on a project that involved celebrated objects (https://objectofhistory.org/). These included a short handled hoe belonging to the great union organizer Cesar Chavez, a dress made by Elizabeth Keckley, formerly enslaved and an entrepreneur and confidant of Mrs. Lincoln, and Jefferson's portable writing desk made by Sally Hemming's enslaved brother Richard, on which he wrote the Declaration of independence. It turned out that Chavez had never actually used this hoe, that the dress might not have been made by Mrs. Keckley, and that it wasn't clear Jefferson had ever actually used the desk, which might not have existed at the time he wrote the declaration. They were sort of honest about this, in that they were happy to explain, once they got your attention, that the thing was not what they initially suggested it was. That's exactly what's going on here.

Lizzo can play quite well and she is gleefully unashamed of how she looks.
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by ripleywm »

PB+J wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:16 am
Lizzo can play quite well and she is gleefully unashamed of how she looks.
Why in the world would she be ashamed at how she looks? These references to Lizzo's appearance and costume are disconcerting and uncalled for. Especially here.
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by PB+J »

??? I never said she was ashamed of the way she looks. She makes this a big part of her interviews and her presentation of self. See below. Reaction to her playing the flute was focused on how she looked. That's why.

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-bo ... ty-photos/

https://www.vogue.com/article/lizzo-oct ... nclusivity

https://hypebae.com/2022/3/lizzo-opens- ... -interview
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by Steampacket »

"Why in the world would she be ashamed at how she looks? These references to Lizzo's appearance and costume are disconcerting and uncalled for. Especially here." ripleywm.

Yes, I agree with you ripleywm. That Lizzo, a trained classical flute player, was allowed to play some of the flutes in the library's collection, including an odious slave owner's glass Laurent, and an old tenor recorder, seems to have also shocked and outraged some of the flute nerds on Facebook's Flute History Channel. I wonder why? She is an excellent flute player.
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by Mr.Gumby »

The nutters are getting very excited about it as well. :boggle: :sleep:

Hmm, that goes to 404 but if you copy the link and paste it, if does get to the article. Weird.
Last edited by Mr.Gumby on Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by Nanohedron »

Steampacket wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:01 pm I wonder why?
Short answer? Being an icon. That puts a target on anyone's back, and the ammo is whatever's convenient to the attacker's mindset.

I don't follow Lizzo's work, so I don't have a lot of emotional investment in her apart from a distant satisfaction at her being a Minnesota lass, but I will say I was hardly surprised when certain quarters took umbrage. Personally, I was greatly disappointed that she didn't do more than that tentative toot followed by a trill. Maybe if she'd shown her real chops, the critics might have had less to say.

BTW, you guys are doing a good job of keeping this topic within guidelines. Let's keep it that way.
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by NicoMoreno »

Nanohedron wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:49 pm
Steampacket wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:01 pm I wonder why?
Short answer? Being an icon. That puts a target on anyone's back, and the ammo is whatever's convenient to the attacker's mindset.

I don't follow Lizzo's work, so I don't have a lot of emotional investment in her apart from a distant satisfaction at her being a Minnesota lass, but I will say I was hardly surprised when certain quarters took umbrage. Personally, I was greatly disappointed that she didn't do more than that tentative toot followed by a trill. Maybe if she'd shown her real chops, the critics might have had less to say.

BTW, you guys are doing a good job of keeping this topic within guidelines. Let's keep it that way.
A few comments:
First, she was born in Detroit, so I think we get to claim her (at least claim her, too, anyway :) )

Second, a whole LOT of the shock and outrage is directed at her appearance, and I think it's pretty much the common consensus that this is because she's black, a woman, and not supermodel thin. Vocally judging women's bodies is a really common phenomenon in America especially when a woman isn't supermodel thin (of course that doesn't stop it either!) as well as policing black people's appearance, so the combination, especially for a famous and popular singer, is probably too much for such people to resist. PB+J said it much more succinctly, anyway, and I agree.

Third, I don't know why people only focus on the one video of her playing a couple notes. The video of her visit to the actual collection includes her playing a much longer section of music, and she's really good (especially because she's doing it with 1inch nails... that's just ridiculously impressive).

I'm not super familiar with her music in general, but I've listened to some of it, and it's really good, both from a technical and from an artistic point of view. Bottom line, she's awesome, it's great to see someone being unconcerned about this type of awful commentary, I think she's great representation for a lot of people, and it's brilliant that an awesome, strong, funny, cool, and talented black woman is playing a former slave owner's flute. For that alone, I love Lizzo (and the director of the collection).
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by Nanohedron »

NicoMoreno wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:33 pm Third, I don't know why people only focus on the one video of her playing a couple notes. The video of her visit to the actual collection includes her playing a much longer section of music, and she's really good (especially because she's doing it with 1inch nails... that's just ridiculously impressive).
The couple-of-notes clip was all I'd seen up to now (and I'd said to myself, Well, that's hardly "playing", now, is it? And why is everyone losing their minds?). But I just now saw the clip of her really playing the Laurent, and yes, I am most impressed. It's pretty clear that the outcry from certain media sectors had much to do with the moment when she was shaking her booty. They cast it as an outrage against the dignity of US historical objects; I see it, and the umbrage, quite differently. Horses for courses.

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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by NicoMoreno »

Nanohedron wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:02 pm They cast it as an outrage against the dignity of US historical objects; I see it quite differently.
I agree with you. Four days ago, none of those people even knew about the flute...
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Re: Lizzo and the Laurent

Post by Nanohedron »

NicoMoreno wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:12 pm
Nanohedron wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:02 pm They cast it as an outrage against the dignity of US historical objects; I see it quite differently.
I agree with you. Four days ago, none of those people even knew about the flute...
I know, right?
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