Baroque flute?

[Tonehole]

Hi,

A while back I was wondering if my German simple system flute was worth repairing, and thanks to the people who replied, especially the flutemakers.

I'm not a fan of many keys, so I'm after a baroque traverso. I decided to get a student traverso from Aulos in the meantime.

I realise (now) that my conical simple system was almost baroque sounding - sweet, and subtle, with warm colour throughout, but without the delicate shading.

The Aulos plastic Stanesby is really good, but I'm failing the 3rd octave F/Fsharp. The instructions do say that is very difficult to do, but I'm surprised it's really this difficult.

When I tried a number of Rottenburgh and Kirst models, there was no problem with the 3rd octave F/Fsharp, but these were much more expensive.

Does anyone else play baroque traverso have any ways around this?

[plunk111]

How are you fingering it? Try XOXXOO with the key down...

Pat

[chas]

I've never had any problem with the Fsharp. The Fnat is the most difficult note for a flute maker to get to sound, and also the most difficult for the player to get to sound. I have a faithful copy of a Rottenburgh (the elder), and the Fnat is quite dicey. I think it's XOX XD0K (D is half-hole, K is key depressed). The right hand might be DOO; can't remember, but there's definitely a half-hole on the right hand.

Boaz Berney discusses the accessibility of the third-octave Fnat for each of his flute models on his website. It's that much of a problem note. It should come with some experience on the Aulos Stanesby.

[Tonehole]

Hi,

XOXXOO + Key won't work for me - it gives a baroque top A octave note and slightly flat.

XXOXOO + Key up/down won't work at all.
XXOXoO + Key down with the embouchure out works with huge problems. o = 1/2 hole covered.

I think there must be another fingering possibility somewhere for this note?

[MikeS]

Here are the fingering possibilities Janice Dockendorf Boland gives in her book "Method for the One-Keyed Flute."

For F:
XXO XOO K
XXX XXO
XXO XXO
XXO XXX (This works best for me on my Aulos Stanesby Jr.)
OXO XOO K
OXO XXO K

For F#:
XXO XOO (This works best for me on my Aulos Stanesby Jr.)
XXX XOO
XOX XXO
XOX XXX
XXO XOX

Both are tough notes on my Aulos and are considerably easier on my Cameron Rottenburgh.

[chas]

XXOXoO + Key down with the embouchure out works with huge problems. o = 1/2 hole covered.

That's the one that works for me (as it turns out, I had the left hand wrong, not the right). I have two flutes (IH and GA Rottenburgh) on which that fingering is necessary and one (A Grenser) on which the half-hole isn't necessary but doesn't hurt and improves the intonation.

The huge problems will become small problems soon, and in a few years, might even disappear.

[apossibleworld]

You may be finding the limitations of the Aulos instrument. It's a tough note but the best-build instruments do play it easily. Finding that note on your flute will have more to do with finding the right embouchure position. There is no secret magical fingering that will just make it work.

You might be interested in learning about some of the flutes that came in between the baroque flutes and the 19th century larger holed flutes that are in use on this forum. Some of the 4 key and 8 key flutes from around 1800-1820 can be just fantastic instruments, that preserve all the fingerings of the baroque flutes, but also give you options to use the keys. It's really the best of both worlds, when you find the right one. Some of the special ones are expensive, but often times they're much cheaper than any new flutes, and than antique Rudall and Rose flutes, because they have a different audience in general.

[Tonehole]

Mike -

For F:
XXO XXX (This works best for me on my Aulos Stanesby Jr.)


For F#:
XXO XOO (This works best for me on my Aulos Stanesby Jr.)

Thanks - the F natural fingering you've given works well! Thanks. I'm not getting far on the Fsharp though....will keep trying!

Chas - I'd love to have a Grenser which can do that. I've been trying another Kirst which is okay, but actually the tone is more reedy than baroque which disappointed me. I didn't find it as pleasing as the Aulos Stanesby (which says how good it is).

I'd like to improve in the next 15 minutes rather than years

You may be finding the limitations of the Aulos instrument. It's a tough note but the best-build instruments do play it easily. Finding that note on your flute will have more to do with finding the right embouchure position. There is no secret magical fingering that will just make it work.

Thanks - i think you're right. I get it easily in Boehm flute and so I was a bit disappointed with me and the Stanesby at first. I've taken your advice and moved the embouchure more. WOW. It works. But it's a lot of work, compared to lazy simple system keys or Boehm playing. It's like - I can feel I'm having to really rotate the head whilst playing. I presume this is what Marion Mooney means about working the embouchure to compensate for the tone colour and shading of the forked notes. It's going to take a long time to get this nailed. At the minute, I'm rotating the headjoint out whilst playing that 3rd octave F/sharp to get it, but it's still not sounding fluent.

Interested to hear what you say about the simple system flutes. I had one (which is dead now). I've tried a few simple German fingering ones - the keys for Fsharp/Eb/Csharp take me by shock rather than surprise. I'm liking the softer intonation of the baroque flute more than the sheer volume of keys. I thought baroque flutes, with only one key, might be cheaper than those simple system ones with 4 keys but that was so wrong. It seems that baroque flutes are mostly more expensive.

I don't know which brands to look for, but I'm saving up for a Andreas Glatt flute. He makes a beautiful Quantz flute with a footjoint like your avatar.

[Hoovorff]

Simon Polak makes some really nice traversos. I have his Wijne in boxwood and it's fantastic. His flutes are well thought of and the workmanship is very fine.
http://www.earlyflute.com/earlyflutenew ... lutes.html

[MikeS]

Something a bit different to consider would be the "modern traverso" made by Jean-Francois Beaudin. Rather than a copy of a particular original, it is his attempt to make a flute that is true to the spirit of the baroque flute while addressing some of the requirements of today's performers of the repertoire. There are a fair number of folk, for example, who play Palanca copies for no other reason than they are loud enough to be heard in the ensemble. I've not had an opportunity to play one of Jean-Francois' flutes, but I have heard performances on them. In the hands of someone like Mindy Rosenfeld or Colin St. Martin they sound very nice indeed.

Here is a link to Jean-Francois' description of his flutes:

http://www.flute-beaudin.com/Beaudin_Flute.html

Here is a link to a video of Mindy Rosenfeld playing one of these flutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO2cQBSGMbg

[Tonehole]

Hoover, Mike -

those are really beautiful flutes. I know the Polak one (very popular from the Early Music Festival).

The video clip was the first time I've heard the Beaudin being played.

It did surprise me that the (much) more expensive a traverso is, the more it tends to be in tune.

[Clinton]

Something a bit different to consider would be the "modern traverso" made by Jean-Francois Beaudin.

Two thumbs up to JFBs Modern Traverso. He let me try out a 392 Hz one last fall, and it was all I could do to pack it up and send it back. I ended up sending it back with a deposit on a new one. When I uncrated the trial instrument and tried a few notes, my wife looked at me and said "what do we have to sell to keep that one".

Clinton