Need suggestions for flute to play at renaissance festival

[insidiousraven]

Yes, my appologies, US dollars.

[psychodonald]

The Irish Flute Store has an antique 8 keyed Blackman for sale for $600.00. It even has a brand on it with a Lion and a Unicorn--does it get any better than that? Don't have any idea if it plays at 440, but you could contact the new owner of the Irish Flute Store, he is very knowledgeable and a really nice fellow!!

[psychodonald]

Sorry, I had a second look at the Blackman Flute (was pressed for time when I first looked at it) and it has 6 keys, looks like, to me, that the Eb key has been removed and the hole plugged, as well as the short F nat. At any rate, it might be worth speaking to Blayne about the flute. Perhaps it could be restored to its original 8 keys if you so desired. Also sounds like he may not be certain of the wood used in the flute, might note that some folks have sensitivities to various woods and nickel, might ask about those items also.

[cory little]

Have you every heard of an Elaphone?
That's what I make.. from all recycled woods.

They are tuned to play well with other instruments, but I usually tune them to minor key.
That allows for playability of the relative major, but you'd have to reset your motor memory.

[benhall.1]

Have you every heard of an Elaphone?
That's what I make.. from all recycled woods.

They are tuned to play well with other instruments, but I usually tune them to minor key.
That allows for playability of the relative major, but you'd have to reset your motor memory.

But, unless I've misunderstood, they've only got a range of just over an octave, right? And they look kind of 21st century and American? As opposed to Renaissance Europe. Those the thingies?

[Peter Duggan]

Have you every heard of an Elaphone?

Yes... recommended by you as a good low F whistle and now as a quasi-renaissance flute with potential to cover multiple keys, but totally unsuited for either purpose!

[cboody]

Fascinating discussion almost entirely about instruments that would not have been seen in the Renaissance or would have been played in doors (see MTGuru's comments).

The whole Renaissance Festival thing is very strange in the requirements. Locally folks had to hide zippered cases for instruments (like Hammered dulcimer...another one that is dubious for the era..at least in its modern incarnation), but a local bassoon quartet could come out with zippered cases protecting their leather cases, bring modern music stands and play all sorts of things not in the period. Don't even get started on the non-Renaissance vocal music. And, I never saw anything that remotely resembled ANY Renaissance instruments at the Minnesota Faire. Even the recorders were Baroque. I suppose maybe the penny whistles were sort of period, but that's about it. The harps all have sharping levers....

All that said were I a flutist, and I am not, I guess I'd decide whether I wanted to go with a modern "silver" flute or a late baroque/early classic 8 keyed flute. The latter would probably look better to most not in the know. And, I'd seriously consider getting delrin. It can't be easily detected from ebony from any distance and is probably better able to stand the rigors of the weather than a fine wooden instrument. I don't know, though, who makes a fine quality delrin instrument.

Glad to hear the KC faire is going well. I had good friends who played there years ago. Minnesota Fest is doing well, but treats musicians like dirt so the quality has been dropping steadily.

[insidiousraven]

Yes, I am quite aware that the flute was not a popular instrument of the time, especially in an outdoor ensemble. Unfortunately, unless I'd like to roll around a keyboard, its the only instrument I know how to play, and to the uninitiated, a flute looks correct.

Most of my requirements are based on looks vs performance. I want something that looks period (again, to the uninitiated) but at the same time is convenient enough that I can play all of my required music with it. The debate seems to come down to is the look and feel of wood worth the extra care it would take in this situation?

I keep flopping back and forth between wood and plastic. I like the idea of not having to worry about it, but at the same time I was out there last season with wood and it worked fine, and wood is really the look I'm going for.

Also the side debate is how many keys are too many. I think I'd be perfectly fine if I could just get rid of the half holing and use cross fingering. How many keys that means, I am unsure.

[Jayhawk]

If you're trying to strip down to a bare minimum of keys, 4 will get you full chromatic (Bb, G#, Fnat and Eb) because Cnat crossfingers so well on every flute I've ever played (and so many options! oxx ooo, oxo xxx, half-hole the B, oxx xoo).

In my experience, Bb half holes really well on most flutes, too. So for me, if I really wanted minimal keys, I'd go with 3 (G#, short or long Fnat, and Eb). However, it's easier to find a 4 keyed used flute, and if you're playing less Irish trad and more May I Have This Dance stuff, you might find both Fnats to be useful.

[benhall.1]

Yes, I am quite aware that the flute was not a popular instrument of the time, especially in an outdoor ensemble.

Oh? My impression was that they were popular instruments in the Renaissance and, for military use, especially outdoors.

Rick Wilson's site has some information on Renaissance flutes.

I think the point about instruments which would not have been used in the Renaissance is more to do with style of flute. This thread has talked mainly about non-Renaissance flutes.

Flutes per se have always ruled.*



* Well, that's what I say, and I'm sticking to it.

[insidiousraven]

If you're trying to strip down to a bare minimum of keys, 4 will get you full chromatic

I've pretty much decided that's probably the best option for my needs.

Oh? My impression was that they were popular instruments in the Renaissance and, for military use, especially outdoors.

Yes! I simply meant compared to other instruments such as recorders, they appear to be much less popular and quite often a military fife style.

[MTGuru]

Unfortunately, unless I'd like to roll around a keyboard ...

You could play a portative organ, which is historically accurate. Illustrated here in the Cantigas de Santa María, mid 13th century:

http://home.earthlink.net/~curtis_c_bou ... tative.jpg

And a modern copy playing Cantiga No. 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBBqE98nmDM

I wonder if a harmonium would pass muster as a substitute by RenFaire standards?

[insidiousraven]

Well, some band members and I bought a consort of kelhorns, so we'll at least get some buzz AND history going for some of our songs.

Pretty sure I'm going to pick up the sweetheart 4 key next paycheck. Everything seems to have sorted themselves out.

Thanks, everyone, for your help!

[cboody]

Well, some band members and I bought a consort of kelhorns, so we'll at least get some buzz AND history going for some of our songs.

Pretty sure I'm going to pick up the sweetheart 4 key next paycheck. Everything seems to have sorted themselves out.

Thanks, everyone, for your help!

Kelhorns have NO historic tradition. They were invented by George Keleshek (sp?) in the 20th century. I've played those things...good luck.

Glad you've solved your flute situation though.

As to flutes being a military instrument in the Renaissance: That Dürer etching is no proof at all. He has all sorts of whimsical things in his collection of ensembles. And nothing else in Rick Wilson's page indicates anything about outside playing. Any iconographic evidence I've seen, and all materials I've read from the era support the idea of loud and soft consorts with the soft consort (which includes flutes) being generally seen as an indoors consort. Even the development of wind sextets and octets in the classic era avoid the flute (some exceptions like the Haydn dectets, but not many).

[benhall.1]

A page linked at the bottom of Rick Wilson's page on flutes in the Renaissance:

http://www.flutehistory.com/Instrument/Renaissance.php3

And another, from a perfunctory Google:

http://www.music.iastate.edu/antiqua/tr_flute.htm

I dunno. My impression is that they were used pretty extensively in the Renaissance. They were clearly one of the main instruments, including for orchestral work, in the Baroque - read Quantz - and then went from strength to strength in the 19c, as improvements were made to enable the flute to keep up with contemporary technical improvements in other instruments.

There's that one comment, on the second page linked to above, about flutes falling in popularity towards the end of the 17c. This fall in popularity can't have lasted long, judging by the Quantz book, written in 1752. From memory, he switched to flute from violin when he was about 20 (so 1717) because it gave him increased opportunities for work and fame. (Again, just an impression from reading the book - it's not a quote.)

There's not a lot about outside playing of flutes, but there are comments here and there, on that Rick Wilson page and on the other that he links to, which suggests that it may have been military use that caused the spread in popularity of the flute. I'd be interested if there's anything else out there, about any style of flute playing in the Renaissance, indoor or outdoor.