My Chanter is Broken Because it Can’t be MY Fault.
I get sent this type of forum thread on a regular basis and I usually answer the emails directly but this thread is a 24ct example of just how out of touch the and under skilled the poor GHB cousins are.
I will comment on each thread response.
Piper:
“I’ve been having fun with my new b-flat setup, but need some advice. The chanter low A is 466.6… but every other note is taped. I’m playing an “easy” MacPhee reed (it’s my spare for my solo Naill chanter). The search function suggested a harder reed… but the b-flat set is for enjoyment (non competition tunes, played on alternate days).
Education opportunity…. If I carve (sharpen) the low A, I’ll need to pull out the reed (flatten) witch will reduce the amount of tape? I don’t mind taping… (carving is a bit beyond my rookie level)… but if I did sharpen the low A… would it reduce the amount of tape?“
The first thing that stands out is that the A’s have not been confirmed as in tune with each other prior to having to tape all the other holes. Not very bright! A lack of reed skills.
I have used and reeded many of these RGH Bb chanters and they are a good product and a pleasure to reed at medium playing pressure. The chanter would have left RGH in good tune as CNC does not get it so wrong that the chanter would pass the quality assurance testing by the maker.
This is, I believe, a classic example of “NO REED SKILLS”. This piper wants to start carving a perfectly good chanter before doing the most basic diagnostics. The worst part of this issue is that the carving” WILL” fail and the chanter and RGH are going to get the bad press because of ignorance and foolishness. It’s just not fair for the maker, but neither is life I suppose.
Now, look at how dumb and dumber try to help with their input!
Respondent 1:
“Pulling out the reed should flatten the other notes. I would do that first, however, before carving (I'm sure you already thought of that, though), for it may not affect the low hand (and A) as much as the higher notes. Mileage varies, of course, with reeds et al.”
This respondent has few if any reed skills as he is not asking anything that would allow diagnostics. He should be asking for the chanter pitch when the A’s are in tune with each other as balancing the tonic is the only starting point.
Respondent 2:
“If it’s new....I’d send it back and ask for another. It should be perfect...Hardie & Co would instst.”
This is, what I see, as “Bozo the Clown” demonstrating an abject level of GHB piping ignorance. It is reasonable to believe that RGH sent out a working chanter and as there have been no objective diagnostics carried out at this time, all sending the chanter back is going to do is waste time and money and demonstrate ignorance.
Piper:
“Really? Or are you just pulling my leg …. I’m tuning my low A to 466… every other note is sharp (now taped)… I will give them a call, but I would think the production tolerances must be tight? I really wanted this chanter to be my break in chanter… to make ready my MacPhee reeds for my Naill chanter or the Troy reeds for my RJM chanter.
I do have 3 Chris Apps reeds but they played 483 on my Naill.
I really like the 466 set up… it’s worth experimenting.”
While Piper is correct in believing the RGH tolerances would be tight, he should have woken up to the reed based on his/her comments about the other reeds and the Naill chanter. There has never been a Naill chanter made with a fundamental pitch at 483, even the model Murray Henderson designed for Naill so it should be obvious at this point that the reed (pitch) is the real issue but, as what I see as a void in the reed skills department, the penny still has not dropped, so we go on.
Respondent 3:
“I wouldn’t do anything until you see where it balances in the octave with that reed. Tuning is reed dependent. There’s nothing magic about a Bb chanter that’ll make it tune to Bb with any reed.
So get back to us when you know the natural pitch of the chanter/reed combo”
While this respondent is far from clear, he/she is asking for reed analysis so we are heading in the right direction. I think he/she is telling Piper to balance the low A to the next octave A, (high A) which is the correct first step.
Respondent 4:
“Hi #######; Judging by the amount of tape you have on the various holes (Hi A, Hi G & F half covered - and then progressively less down to the Lo A), I’d say that the chanter reed is positioned too low (too sharp).
I’d suggest raising the chanter reed until the Hi A and Lo A are balanced (without tape), and that should considerably reduce the amount of tape needed (if at all) on the other holes as well.
I also have a poly Bb Infinity chanter, but I haven’t done much with it in several months (I’ve set my Bb ambitions aside for now, and am focusing on the mid - low 470’s range).
I use MacPhee reeds in my mid-90’s Naill and a MCC2, but my Bb Infinity seemed to prefer a ridge-cut reed (I think I was using an easy G1 Platinum).
it would be interesting to know what type/brand of reed was used in the development of the Bb Infinity chanter.
Anyway, my thoughts would be against carving the Lo A hole of your chanter - I’d recommend starting out by balancing the Hi A and Lo A without tape, and see what that gets you.”
This respondent is also focusing on balancing the A’s as the starting point however, while he/she is focusing on the reed, the emphasis on the reed brand is not going to solve the issue. The real issue is the actual reed pitch and so far, this is being overlooked. Any idiot can keep going into the reed box until a reed of the correct pitch is found but it really is just a case of the blind sparrow eventually finding a worm. None the less, respondents 3 & 4 are getting away from blaming the chanter.
Respondent 5:
“Easier reeds 19"-24" H2O will often tend to lean flat on B and low A. If you can live with the tape I would do so. Depending on the chanter, carving low A can also sharpen E more than you might like.”
This answer is just plain dumb. None of this comment could be demonstrated with any consistency and in my view, demonstrates an abject lack of GHB bagpiping reed skills and knowledge.
Piper:
“All good discussion. I was targeting the low A at 466… I’m there… but the rest of the chanter is sharp… I totally agree I need to pull up my reed (flatten)… but then my low A will be flat… hence my thought on carving it sharper. It’s a hobby… Rod, I’ll pull the reed and balance high/low A and see where I end up.
####### “So get back to us when you know the natural pitch of the chanter/reed combo”…this is helpful… as opposed to targeting a frequency (in this case 466)… start by finding an octave jump low/high A? I suspect I’ll be less than 466 (with this reed).”
If Piper does balance the A’ as being stated, he/she will be able to see at what pitch the chanter will tune at. If the pitch is over 466 (Bb), the reed pitch is too sharp so a flatter reed needs to be found and vise-versa for a low pitch. This needs to be done with a reed that has been fully moisture normalised (played in) as a too dry a reed will give a (usually) false sharp reading. To find the fundamental pitch of the chanter it is best to use the low G to jump the octave.
Respondent 3:
“The top notes are way more affected by reed position than the bottom notes. I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if it all balances at 465 Hz. That probably is not the case, I’m just saying I would not be surprised if it was”
This is correct as it is about 3:1 from low A to back A but in this case, because the low A is at 466, it is still looking at a reed pitch issue.
Respondent 6:
“So oddly enough, I just talked with R.G. Hardie about my Bb Infinity chanter and I almost came here to post a question about experiences reeding it.
I asked if they have a reed that the 466 version of the Infinity was designed around or general suggestions for reeding it. My reeds are mostly all 25 inches of water strength (easy) and varying degrees of used, and all were producing very sharp High Gs (read: registering as flat High As in some cases) with a fair amount of tape on all notes. These were worn Chesney's, a Troy, a couple Apps, a Melvin. I don't play with other instruments and I'm not particular about hitting 466Hz myself; I'm happy at 465Hz, 469Hz, even 470Hz etc. But this was a lot of tape and an unplayable HG, sometimes F.
Alastair Dunn's answer was that the Bb Infinity was designed around regular, standard pitch reeds but that they find the G1 Platinum works well. I like G1 and I haven't had them in a long time so I went ahead and ordered two G1 Platinums. I went with the 'Bb' version instead of the regular pitch because I figured it wouldn't hurt and because my other chanter is also 466 (Shepherd Orchestral).
I received the G1s last week and they're certainly much better for me. Less tape, HG is tamed, and it's easier to balance the scale now. They're blowing around 27 inches of water for what G1 calls
This is not really a helpful commentary as once again; reed brand is being referenced when the real issue is reed pitch. The sharp high G is a common problem that is also a reed issue but that’s for another post. The pressure is a very relevant point as a chanter can vary in pitch as a result of differing pressures but this issue is all about the reed so the reed pitch issue needs to be corrected first."
If I was using a synthetic reed, on a GHB tuner a D + 30 cents @28” will balance this chanter however, E – 30 cents will have the low A @ 471 Hz with the A’s in balance. The tolerances are not wide.
Piper:
“####### I was just trading notes with Isla at Hardie and ordered 3 “standard” shepherd reeds easy/24-25”)… we should trade notes (or do a reed exchange LOL).
I really enjoy this form… the people posting are helpful and I’m learning a lot as I start of this hobby. So I removed all the tape… and abandoned at target 466 low A and sought out a natural A/A octave… it made a HUGE difference… I was initially at 463 +/- but tweaking playing over the course of an hour I ended up with a BRAW calibration of 466 (a little over blown) but low A at 464.2. It looks like in my next session I can sharpen the reed just a wee bit more.
No tape on the chanter… for this pic. Certainly a lot cleaner… and a great learning experience… appreciate the the help!”
Now we see proof that the reed is the real issue and the chanter is just fine. It is still somewhat of an annoyance that the chanter makers will not specify reed pitch but because of the variables with cane reeds and makers, this is probably an unreasonable suggestion.
The term “regular, standard pitch reeds” is a bit of a furfy, I suppose it’s one of those times where, if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bulldust! Why not provide numbers? Even “Bozo the Clown” can likely count to 100.
Reed skills saved the day and now this piper has a better understanding of the importance of reed skills. The other aspect of note is that this piper notes the pitch was at 466 with a small increase in playing pressure. It can now be deduced the playing pressure of the chanter maker that tuned this chanter. This is not to say the chanter cannot be played at different pressures however, the correct reed will be required and some trim tuning with some tape.
Respondent 8:
“Over and through... in The Piping Game... all of those tussles...
with that Old Rascal... Time... I have never even considered...
whittling on a chanter... much the less... actually attempting it.
(Says right on my chart... "No Sharp Objects."
And why??... Because... and at least in my case... more than
likely... to wind up... with a self-induced bollix... and simply...
an injured... chanter... (Sigh...)
(Though I am... well pleased... to see the Skill Set in our far-
flung mob... having the acquired skills... to take on these
whittling "adjustments"... and without fear of catastrophe.
Those wonderful Old Fellows... in my first band... and damned
near back... to when Steam Was King!!... had a much easier
approach... and solution... to such...
Work!!... Tussle!!... Waltz About!!... with the chanter reeds...
and how ever many... that might take...
And while... this can seem... a sometimes up-hill slog... there
is much to be learned... and... you... and your chanter... and
the proper pitch... can... all wind up... in happy conclusion...
And wishing... Good Fortune with it... to All,”
I only included this response as an example of the type of nutbag that can involve themselves in forums. All the periods suggest to me a serious English literacy and grammar issue or a text conversion problem, and as there is no relevant piping info, probably not even a piper. Not to be taken seriously, just one of the costs of participating in forums.
Respondent 1:
“I do appreciate the view and sentiment. However, having played in a Grade 2 band, and instructed in a Grade 3 juvenile band, the knife did periodically come out, especially on the competition field (often, it was the high A that got carved). Yes, a bit radical; and, with time and experimentation, most issues would have been solved. But that was a luxury we didn't always have.”
I feel this is just another example of “plain dumb”. If you were unable to balance the back A with the low A before you took to the paddock, you should not be touching reeds at all. This is the type of comment to avoid as it only confuses and misleads. Perhaps this respondent is wanting to cover for his/her initial comment, either way, I see this as just a dumb, unhelpful comment to post. Yes, undercutting holes is sometimes unavoidable due to chanter design and reed availability but to claim to be competent in running bands and having to gouge the high A on the paddock is what I see as a demonstration of incompetence.
Respondent 9:
“"If you are confident you have a good reed, then it's the chanter that needs fixed" - a paraphrase of a wise comment by an Uilleann pipemaker.”
I see this post as another really “dumb” thing to state. We have been making uilleann reeds for more than 25 years and I would never claim that a uilleann reed that was great in one chanter could be relied upon to assess the design properties and play-ability of a different chanter. While it could work out, (the blind sparrow thing) you could never be confident without testing. Sometimes it is just better to say nothing than mislead.
Respondent 3:
“Give this a whirl: tape over the top of your low G holes (the tone holes). Looks like low G is a tad sharp and a side effect of taping the tone holes is that it should sharpen low A.”
This is another of those irrational, unhelpful comments as it will achieve nothing. Surprisingly, this respondent made some helpful suggestions earlier, maybe he/she was just parroting someone.
Conclusion:
The winner was Piper when he/she contacted the manufacturer and the correct reed selection was demonstrated to resolve the issue.
As I have stated on numerous occasions, it is reasonable to believe that a chanter was in tune when it left the maker and, when the correct reed pitch and pressure are discovered, the chanter will play in tune and balance when the correct parameters are applied.
Reed skills is the answer and while this art is dying and becoming scarcer, it is worth the effort to hunt down those that have them and learn from them.
In this case, a piper is now playing an unmolested chanter and the chanter maker’s name is kept intact. Everyone wins.
Cheers
-G