Smallpipes

JordanII · Post by **JordanII** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:02 pm

I've been looking into some bagpipes stuff and I was going to get some electric pipes until I decided that it was just too expensive to get a realistic sound. So then I decided Smallpipes might be just the thing. They would primarily be used for a celtic band (http://myspace.com/thederthairs.) The band includes keyboard, guitar, tin whistle, fiddle, djembe, and bodhran. Here are the two kinds I am looking at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MEDIEVAL-SMALLPIPES ... otohosting

and

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... rc=3WDTWXX

Yes, I know they are not the greatest, but I'm just not able to dish out a big amount of money for a blackwood set. Which set would you recommend? Are either of them adequate? Any thoughts? Thanks!

~Jordan

mukade · Post by **mukade** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:38 pm

You get what you pay for.

The first set is almost certainly of Pakistani origin and not worth even the price of the wood.
I am not sure about the second set, but I guess it isn't very good.

The cheapest, decent smallpipes are probably John Walsh's polypenco mouthblown sets at about 700 Canadian dollars.

There is also the problem of volume. Smallpipes are quiet and even with amplification other instruments can drown them out. There is a thread on another forum about this now.

http://www.bobdunsire.com/ubbthreads/ub ... Post427359

Scottish smallpipes have the same fingering as highland pipes.
If you are just learning to play, all you need is a practice chanter.
The standard advice is - get a tutor. Most pipe bands provide training.

Mukade

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:19 am

Do you already play Scottish pipes? Do you really want to play bagpipes or is your motivation more to do something that will give your band some kind of edge?

Pipes are not really the kind of thing you just take up because it might go well in your band. Playing any bagpipe competently takes a very significant commitment. Ask yourself what your motivation is. If it's just for your role with your band, you are wasting your time.

Play the instrument you really want to play no matter the context.

BigDavy · Post by **BigDavy** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:48 am

Hi Jordan

Maybe these might suit your pocket and still be of resonable quality.

http://cgi.ebay.com/walsh-shuttle-pipes ... dZViewItem

David

pancelticpiper · Post by **pancelticpiper** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:07 pm

Yep you won't be well served with the Pakistani things. The "practice pipes" are better but not a real performance instrument.
Walsh makes two types of smallpipes in A, their "shuttlepipes" and their "smallpipes in A 2000". I and another piper played the two back-to-back for around an hour, and the "smallpipes in A" are superior. I have a set, and they are a great-sounding and very reliable instrument. I've played them on stage in the rain, in 100 degree heat, and they always play in tune. I highly recommend them. They are a terrific value.

JordanII · Post by **JordanII** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:05 pm

mukade wrote:You get what you pay for.

The first set is almost certainly of Pakistani origin and not worth even the price of the wood.
I am not sure about the second set, but I guess it isn't very good.

The cheapest, decent smallpipes are probably John Walsh's polypenco mouthblown sets at about 700 Canadian dollars.

There is also the problem of volume. Smallpipes are quiet and even with amplification other instruments can drown them out. There is a thread on another forum about this now.

http://www.bobdunsire.com/ubbthreads/ub ... Post427359

Scottish smallpipes have the same fingering as highland pipes.
If you are just learning to play, all you need is a practice chanter.
The standard advice is - get a tutor. Most pipe bands provide training.

Mukade

Yeah, the first set is Pakistani. The second one is made in Canada. As far as the volume goes, are the sallpipes the same, quieter, or a little louder than a tin whistle? How loud are they compared to a practice chanter? Thanks!

PS: I had a tutor for a while until I decided to teach myself.

Do you already play Scottish pipes? Do you really want to play bagpipes or is your motivation more to do something that will give your band some kind of edge?

Pipes are not really the kind of thing you just take up because it might go well in your band. Playing any bagpipe competently takes a very significant commitment. Ask yourself what your motivation is. If it's just for your role with your band, you are wasting your time.

Play the instrument you really want to play no matter the context.

No, but I would like to play the pipes. I don't want to play highland pipes. I ran into the smallpipes and the shuttle pipes and I've been trying to decide what I'm gonna do. Anyway, I will take that into consideration.

JordanII · Post by **JordanII** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:06 pm

Double Post

JordanII · Post by **JordanII** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:14 pm

BigDavy wrote:Hi Jordan

Maybe these might suit your pocket and still be of resonable quality.

http://cgi.ebay.com/walsh-shuttle-pipes ... dZViewItem

David

Nope, I'm afraid not.

Yep you won't be well served with the Pakistani things. The "practice pipes" are better but not a real performance instrument.
Walsh makes two types of smallpipes in A, their "shuttlepipes" and their "smallpipes in A 2000". I and another piper played the two back-to-back for around an hour, and the "smallpipes in A" are superior. I have a set, and they are a great-sounding and very reliable instrument. I've played them on stage in the rain, in 100 degree heat, and they always play in tune. I highly recommend them. They are a terrific value.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm afraid they just cost a bit to much money.

So... summing it all up, all along I've wanted to play Uilleann Pipes. The only problem is (of course) the price. I'm 13 years old and I just don't have that kind of money. My thought was that maybe I should just get a Uilleann chanter and play that 'til I get a full set. Thanks for the help!

~Jordan

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:18 pm

JordanII wrote:So... summing it all up, all along I've wanted to play Uilleann Pipes. The only problem is (of course) the price. I'm 13 years old and I just don't have that kind of money. My thought was that maybe I should just get a Uilleann chanter and play that 'til I get a full set. Thanks for the help!

Are you referring to a practice set (chanter, bag and bellows) or one of the "uilleann practice chanters"? Most uilleann pipers suggest avoiding the "uilleann practice chanter" but I believe PanCelticPiper was able to get one to work decently.

So, Jordan, do you live anywhere that you could take on a paper route or something? Your best bet for getting started on pipes is to be patient and divert your efforts towards earning the money for something that costs more but is of higher quality from a reputable maker. Most would suggest that David Daye's Penny Chanter practice sets are about as no-frills as is safe to go for uilleann pipes.

mukade · Post by **mukade** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:25 pm

A playable uilleann practice set (bellows, bag and chanter) will cost at least 600 dollars. The sets you have listed here and in the Uilleann forum are a waste of money.

There is no cheap alternative for uilleann pipes.

If you want to learn highland piping for smallpipes or great highland bagpipes, you can buy a practice chanter. Again, there are cheap practice chanters all over ebay, so it is best to buy from a reputable bagpipe supplier. Hendersons sell a package with the College of Piping Tutor, a Dunbar polypenco practice chanter and some spare reeds for 130 dollars.
http://www.hendersongroupltd.com/buy/ck4g.html

Saying that, learning on your own is not something anyone would recommend. Starting on the wrong foot with a poor instrument or no proper training will hinder your playing in the future.

Mukade

JordanII · Post by **JordanII** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:49 pm

AaronMalcomb wrote:
JordanII wrote:So... summing it all up, all along I've wanted to play Uilleann Pipes. The only problem is (of course) the price. I'm 13 years old and I just don't have that kind of money. My thought was that maybe I should just get a Uilleann chanter and play that 'til I get a full set. Thanks for the help!
Are you referring to a practice set (chanter, bag and bellows) or one of the "uilleann practice chanters"? Most uilleann pipers suggest avoiding the "uilleann practice chanter" but I believe PanCelticPiper was able to get one to work decently.

So, Jordan, do you live anywhere that you could take on a paper route or something? Your best bet for getting started on pipes is to be patient and divert your efforts towards earning the money for something that costs more but is of higher quality from a reputable maker. Most would suggest that David Daye's Penny Chanter practice sets are about as no-frills as is safe to go for uilleann pipes.

At first I was referring to just a chanter, but now (after some research) I am talking about a practice set.

A playable uilleann practice set (bello ... . Mukade

I've got a highland pipe chanter (but that has nothing to do with Uilliann pipes.) Yes, it is Pakistani.....

I have taken about seven or eight piping lessons so I know what not to do.

~Jordan

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:44 pm

JordanII wrote:I've got a highland pipe chanter (but that has nothing to do with Uilliann pipes.) Yes, it is Pakistani..... I have taken about seven or eight piping lessons so I know what not to do.
~Jordan

Seven or eight lessons is not enough no matter how much talent you have. Maybe seven or eight years of lessons might be enough.

Jordan, you're young and full of pluck and probably of above average intelligence which is why you're so confident. I'm sure you want to become a great piper no later than yesterday and telling you to save your money and get lessons just seems like an obstacle.

Getting instruction and a good quality instrument is a much better investment of your energy and will pay off for the rest of your life. Doing it alone with something barely worth a couple hundred dollars is just going to leave you frustrated with nothing to show for it. At least if you've saved up enough for a good instrument you'll have that. Piping never ceases to be frustrating.

And what do your parents/guardians think of all of this? Are you not getting any support from them?

I don't know what part of Michigan you're in but maybe start here.

Piping, no matter what kind of bagpipe, is a life-long journey. Ask any of the great pipers alive today and even if they have been at it for 30 or more years none of them will say that they know everything about piping or are as good as they can get. If any do you can be sure they are lying.

JordanII · Post by **JordanII** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:41 pm

AaronMalcomb wrote:
JordanII wrote:I've got a highland pipe chanter (but that has nothing to do with Uilliann pipes.) Yes, it is Pakistani..... I have taken about seven or eight piping lessons so I know what not to do.
~Jordan
Seven or eight lessons is not enough no matter how much talent you have. Maybe seven or eight years of lessons might be enough.

Jordan, you're young and full of pluck and probably of above average intelligence which is why you're so confident. I'm sure you want to become a great piper no later than yesterday and telling you to save your money and get lessons just seems like an obstacle.

Getting instruction and a good quality instrument is a much better investment of your energy and will pay off for the rest of your life. Doing it alone with something barely worth a couple hundred dollars is just going to leave you frustrated with nothing to show for it. At least if you've saved up enough for a good instrument you'll have that. Piping never ceases to be frustrating.

And what do your parents/guardians think of all of this? Are you not getting any support from them?

I don't know what part of Michigan you're in but maybe start here.

Piping, no matter what kind of bagpipe, is a life-long journey. Ask any of the great pipers alive today and even if they have been at it for 30 or more years none of them will say that they know everything about piping or are as good as they can get. If any do you can be sure they are lying.

Thanks for the help! I'll take that all into consideration. I understand that there is always more to learn and I would like to learn what I can. Thanks again!