How to leard to blow the bag

[pancelticpiper]

more than 80% of the pipers had no clue as to how to set up their drone reeds or to select appropriate drone reeds...

Sorry but I stopped reading right there.

Putting a percentage to something, making it into a statistic, makes it sound objective. But it's merely opinion.

It's as scientific as saying "80% of voters don't know the appropriate candidate to vote for" because your candidate just lost an 80/20 election.

Pipers have a wide spectrum of preferences.

Several pipers playing the same make of drones will almost certainly be playing several different makes of drone reeds, including using a mix of makes in a set of drones, to get the tone and performance they want.

[Glenarley]

Good day Richard
Thank you for your feedback but please read the entire sentence as selectively quoting a paraphrase misrepresents the facts.

Where I stated
"We used a sample of a little under 100 pipers so not a large sample but what we found was that more than 80% of the pipers had no clue as to how to set up their drone reeds or to select appropriate drone reeds for the drone sets they were playing."
This is not a subjective opinion, it is an objective fact. From the nearly 100 pipers we observed, more than 80% could not do as I stated. I am not stating that 80% of all pipers that ever played the GHB have this issue, merely 80% odd of the group we tested.

Hope this clarifies my statement.

I have received quite a few emails about the twin blade base reed, some can be answered and some will not.

Can you post a picture?

Why go to all that trouble for 2 decibels?

Two blades cannot work at the same time.

If it was any good the other reed makers would also make them.

This sounds like a scam.

And the usual luddites chimed in with a plethora of claims about how cane reeds make the best tone when compared to synthetic drone reeds.

The main point of my post seems to have been missed. We are not promoting the reeds, the industry does not need yet another drone reed product in the market. We are promoting the process in a way that makes the GHB more manageable.

I will answer the questions as separate posts as some require an appropriate full explanation on their mutually exclusive merits.

Cheers

-G

[Glenarley]

Drone Reed Project

Attached is a picture of the dual bladed base drone reed.



The project was not about a new reed design, it was about making setting up and playing drones less problematic.

In AUS/NZ the pipe bands have been in serious decline and while we have many private schools with pipe bands, very few of the pipers/drummers would migrate to the club/social bands once they left the school structure and we had very few younger people wanting to take up the pipes. We wanted look at ways to change the situation.

Luddites and stalwarts were probably the main offenders in the final analysis.

The pipers from the school bands found the strict adherence to “my way or the highway” approach to equipment and technique by many of the older pipe majors burdensome and in conflict to their learned techniques, the perspective young learners just find it too difficult to deal with. The old stalwarts with their insistence on adhering to the noble traditional equipment and processes and resisting modern equipment and techniques to be adopted was seen as a barrier to most. A common theme was “why make us use unreliable cane drone reeds when we have reliable synthetics?”

Effectively, these stuck in the mud, narrow minded traditionalists were making a difficult instrument almost impossible to learn and master. They are unintentionally killing the craft through a lack of appreciation of the current youth attitudes and expectations.

We had many enthusiastic learners, young and old, try for a few weeks and throw in the towel because they believed they would never be able to learn the pipes, they were just too difficult, so the kids went back to their social media and game consols and the older learners just called too hard.

Of the current pipers we sampled, most could not set or select drone reeds for the drone sets they were playing, mainly because they had never been properly tutored on reeds. These pipers became solely dependent on the band’s reed setters and pipe majors to set and tune their pipes, they are becoming deskilled by the very people supposed to be helping them.

Our project goal was to see if we could change attitudes and increase the uptake of the craft, one luddite at a time. Designing a friendly reliable drone reed system has been the first step.

Cheers

-G

[Glenarley]

Drone Reed Project

The question was: Why go to all the trouble for 2 db?

While 2db doesn’t sound much, keep in mind that the db scale is logarithmic so 2db is a noticeable increase.

One of the outstanding observations in our project was how many pipers claimed they were unable to clearly hear their base drone when tuning and this was noted as one of the main reasons the pipers were unable to get a good tuning lock with the tenors and base drone. They could hear the base without the tenors but the base got lost when the tenors were brought in. We found that some top competitive bands were actually shutting off one tenor so the base stood out more clearly.

The majority of the pipe majors would remedy this quiet base sound by opening up the base reed bride to increase the base reed intensity however, in most cases this made the base very raspy with a lack of harmonic tone. While the base could now be heard, the sound was so raspy and brittle, it was even harder to get it tuned to the tenors. The opened up base reed was also consuming a lot more air making the bag management problematic, the cure being worse than the ailment.

The chasing the big base sound is one of the main reasons we found for pipers/bands using a base reed that was not of the same make as the tenor reeds.

With the double-bladed base reed, the 2db gain in intensity was enough of an increase to push the intensity of the base reed over the intensity of the combined tenors and this led to most of the sampled pipers being able to hear the base drone clearly while the tenors were playing. This was quite an exciting revelation and the biggest bonus was that the double-bladed base reed used about the same amount of air as the single bladed base reed of the same type while producing a very harmonic hum, there was no raspy tone to deal with and, as a further bonus, the double-bladed reed was less prone to roaring at strike-ins.

There was another factor that contributes to the increased base reed intensity and I will cover this in another post.

Our intention with the dual blades was to see if the intensity could be increased, and it is, the other value added components were, in all honesty, were more like the blind sparrow eventually finding a worm.

Cheers

-G

[Glenarley]

Drone Reed Project

Got quite a few statements/questions as per:

Two blades can’t work at the same time.

If it worked the other reed makers would also make them.

While I cannot name any, I am sure other reed makers also make dual bladed drone reeds, I couldn’t be the only one.

I did not believe that two blades would work at the same time but as the reed setter I have partnered with wanted to have a crack, I designed and made some bodies for him to try and set. I changed the design a good few times as there are a couple of tricky bits that need to be pretty accurate but to my surprise, here we are.

Somehow the pulse seems to equalise so both blades operate simultaneously, this is what I thought could not happen.

If I tape down one blade, the sound is reduced and the shut-off pressure is reduced by about 25%. Two blades operating at 40” will reduce to about 30” with one taped off and the intensity is noticeably reduced.

The audio bloke explained it like this: if one person claps their hands and this generated 100db of sound, and then you have two people clapping their hands, each at 100db, the sound of two clapping has more intensity than when only one person is clapping, even though each person is only generating 100db.

I am not the audio bloke but because it made sense to him, and the results is obvious, I just accept his explanation.

I have started to modify ezy reed bodies to our design and it is working ok. Not as good as ours but still very acceptable. The only obvious issue was the void above the reed vent hole as a result of the tuning screw. When we screwed the screw all the way down to be almost flush with the vent hole, and plugged the hole in the screw with putty, the tone matched our reeds more closely.

We went for the cane drone reed principle of no headspace void and relied on reed seating height to tune the drones. Simple and reliable.

Cheers

-G

[pancelticpiper]

1) We used a sample of a little under 100 pipers so not a large sample but what we found was that more than 80% of the pipers had no clue as to how to set up their drone reeds or to select appropriate drone reeds for the drone sets they were playing."

2) From the nearly 100 pipers we observed, more than 80% could not do as I stated.

For statement #1 I stand by what I said, because the term "appropriate" indicates a judgement based on opinion.

What one person considers an "appropriate" colour to paint their house someone else may not.

If you get ten Open Solo pipers playing the same drones you'll likely have ten different ideas as to the "appropriate" way to set up their pipes. They'll all have very nice tone, but they might vary quite a bit in the sort of tone they're after, and even when multiple pipers have the same tonal goal in mind they'll likely have different ways to get there.

Just last weekend I attended a local Highland Games and listened to Solos. Many of the competitors are old friends.

What's interesting is how many lower-level Solo pipers, pipers with wooly fingers and/or a bit unsteady in their blowing, are playing nice-sounding pipes.

If only they would spend as much time practicing as they do fiddling with their setup!

For statement #2 it appears to circle back to statement #1.

[Glenarley]

Good day Richard

Considering your experience with the uilleann pipes, I am a little surprised by your last comments directed at my post as you of all pipers would appreciate the construction differences of different drone sets.

You have completely misunderstood the purpose and context of my post but you do sort of make my point for me.

You are stating tone preference while I am stating operational processes. You are correct in that tone is very opinionated and personally subjective however, operational issues are very objective as they can be measured and have values assigned to them.

With GHB drones we have small bore, large bore, long bores and short bores and all have their differing operational issues where reeds are concerned. How many times do you see people posting about how wonderful their drones are simply because of their make (brand). It’s one of the daftest statements ever written because the operation of the drones is not mutually exclusive to the make of the sticks as they are nothing without the reeds.

Some reeds will not work at pitch and tone preference in some drone sticks yet they operate very well in a different make of sticks. A reed that operated at tone and pitch in a small bore set of sticks will most often not do the same in a large bore set. This is not opinion, it is a measurable objective fact, regardless of whether you like the tone or not.

Some reeds will not produce a steady tone at different pressures so an elderly piper wanting to play at a gentle pressure, regardless of tone, will find that many drone reeds will not blow steady tone at the pressure he/she wants to (is able to) play at. In the same way that a big hairy knuckled piper wanting to burst the seams of his/her bag will find that many drone reed sets just won’t operate at the bag splitting pressure. Again, a measurable objective fact where the appropriate reed needs to be selected.

Then we have to contend with the small bore, large bore, short bore and long bore options, again, not subjective opinion but measurable facts. Just to list one operation issue, a reed that may start well in a short bore drone might be a bag of roosters in a long bore drone, and so on. The appropriate reeds for drones is not my opinion as unlike some, I am not stating tone, I am stating operation matters. Will it start reliably, will it play the preferred tone at the preferred pressure and will it play these in my drone set?

As I stated as an objective fact, a good 80% of the pipers in our sample had no clue as to selecting the appropriate reeds for their drones.

Cheers

-G

[Glenarley]

A new contender for the dumbest bagpipe claims list.

As a result of my drone reeds post I have had more genuine interest than I would have anticipated, especially in the measuring process we employ and the double bladed base reed however, also had a good few nitwits as well.

One avid reader has pointed out to me that I did not include the drone chords as a tone component when tuning the drones and he/she wants me to add drone chords to the list of appropriates when selecting reeds to tune drones.

This reader sent me an entire thread from the other forum where pipers were attesting to how drone chords effected the tone of the drones. I will not post the thread as it goes on forever with some of the dumbest statements I have ever read.

I now have an addition to the dumbest things list I posted earlier in this thread, items that included sterling silver chanter reed staples for the purest tone, chanters that are designed to play at altitude, that the bag material can generate tone and now my new favorite, drone chords can affect the tone of your drones.

In the drone chords thread I will point out that none of those experts that could notice the tone difference between silk and woolen chords (as an example) cared to acknowledge that the drone sticks are played resting upon the pipers shoulder and arm and depending on how the chords are set, the number of contact points and weight thereof has an almost infinite number of variations far exceeding any such contact/pressure the drone chords could apply.

While I could care less what rocks the boats of the willfully stupid, what I do take exception to is that such abject stupidity could be seen by the newbbies and the blissfully ignorant as something that should be practiced.

Such stupid commentary from the drone chord thread is a reason the GHB craft is dying a slow and painful death. The ill informed may follow the drone chord tone nitwits only to find they cannot notice any differences, and feel they must be the problem and call “too hard” and just give up or, they start believing in unicorns.

Better to remain silent and have the world think you are an idiot rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Cheers

-G

[pancelticpiper]

I totally agree with your making a distinction between tone and performance.

I've seen chats about "what are the five most important things you're looking for in a set of drones?" and people will say

1) tone
2) tone
3) tone
4) tone
5) tone

My response is that that's ridiculous.

For example ease of strike-in. Yes in solos you can honk and squeal all you want to get your finicky drones to play. But in a Pipe Band you need drones that strike in perfectly EVERY time, regardless if (due to nerves) you go a bit rough on your strike-in, or it's been raining all day and your reeds are soaked, or any other situation.

In a Pipe Band I'd say that 100% perfect strike-ins are MORE important than tone.

Another example is stability. What does it matter how good your tone is if by the time you hit the Crunluath your drones are playing at three different pitches?

There's the other sort of stability, the ability of the drones to stay on pitch regardless of blowing fluctuations. I've seen drones so unstable that they can only be played by top-tier steady blowers. With Mere Mortals the slightest spike or dip in pressure will send the Bass drone going wildly sharp and flat like a Theremin.

Many of the modern makes of drones, some which have received a lot of praise, are finicky about striking in and are not very stable. I was slightly shocked recently when I got an extended loan of a new much-ballyhooed make of drones and found that no matter how I tried reeding them they weren't very stable.

I'll stick with my vintage pipes which have the total package of volume, tone, strike-in, and stability.