So I got myself a box...

We have some evidence, however, that you may have to pay for the reeds.
Post Reply
Gabriel
Posts: 1755
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:35 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8

So I got myself a box...

Post by Gabriel »

Hi fellow free-reeders,

I got myself a vintage Hohner Black Dot Double Ray Deluxe B/C box off ebay...it's not a new one, as it was made in Germany and not China. The previous owner already had someone remove the extremely wet stock tuning, so the box already has a nice tone. But I'm not happy yet...here are some photos:

Image Image Image Image

As you might have noticed, the box features two big golden swastikas. I really have absolutely no idea why they're there, maybe Hohner wanted to make clear this way that the box was german-made...but it most certainly wasn't made in the 30s or 40s. Really, no clue what that should tell me. Anyway, I'm planning to rip the red perloid foil off the box completely as it is just a little bit too much for my eyes, so the swastikas will vanish, too. I don't know what awaits me under the foil, so if the wood looks nice, I might just leave it as it is and add some clear varnish. I'm also thinking about a sturdy matte black finish with gold or silver accents. The grill is pretty thin and doesn't look very cool. I will probably make a new one from some kind of metal, maybe stainless steel, aluminum or german silver. Will be a lot of work, but why not...I'm also planning to remove the original red perloid keyboard grill, as it is a solid piece of plastic. A metal grill will look nice here, too. As the buttons are going deep into the keyboard, I'm planning to add some kind of rubber padding under the buttons to improve snappiness and reduce action. And the buttons look old and dirty, so I might look into getting/making new ones.

We'll see how it turns out...I have a fully equipped flute-making workshop, so I'll probably be able to use some of the tools I have for the work. But the metalwork will be tricky...I'll keep you updated if you like.

Ah, if anyone has hints or thoughts that might help a new B/C box player to get started, that would be most appreciated. I can knock out a tune or two already (have been playing the concertina a bit), but a few hints regarding technique or tunes that fall nicely onto the keyboard would be great.

Cheers,
Gabriel
User avatar
MTGuru
Posts: 18663
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:45 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: So I got myself a box...

Post by MTGuru »

Congratulations on the nice box, Gabriel.

How odd about the swastikas - I did not know that. From Google search, it seems the swastikas are apparently part of the original Double Ray design both before and after the Nazi period, and not directly related. But covering or hiding them does seem like a good idea to avoid unnecessary explanations.

It sounds like you're considering this to be a "project box" with your modifications. That's fine, it's your box! But frankly, in terms of resale and/or posterity ... One man's improvements are another man's destruction :o of a desirable classic, a vintage (and now somewhat rare) instrument, red perloid and all (which many like as part of its charm). Except for the button stops, the radical alterations you describe would ruin it for me. It would no longer be a Double Ray.

If you don't like the looks, why not pass it to someone who will appreciate it exactly as it is? Or at least wait until you're sure you'll keep and play it.

I'm completely self-taught on the B/C box, so no real advice to give. Except that it's the Devil's instrument, and nothing falls nicely on the keyboard. :lol: So just pick some favorite tunes (I'd avoid reels at first) and have at it.
Vivat diabolus in musica! MTGuru's (old) GG Clips / Blackbird Clips

Joel Barish: Is there any risk of brain damage?
Dr. Mierzwiak: Well, technically speaking, the procedure is brain damage.
User avatar
kkrell
Posts: 4831
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 6:00 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Mostly producer of the Wooden Flute Obsession 3-volume 6-CD 7-hour set of mostly player's choice of Irish tunes, played mostly solo, on mostly wooden flutes by approximately 120 different mostly highly-rated traditional flute players & are mostly...
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: So I got myself a box...

Post by kkrell »

Red perloid is a common enough sight - why not get used to it? You can cover the swastikas with stickers, maybe a nice holographic/laser diffracted mylar. I agree with MTGuru about minimizing modifications (except perhaps necessary for playability) of a historic instrument. Get yourself another project box to completely re-tool.
Gabriel
Posts: 1755
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:35 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8

Re: So I got myself a box...

Post by Gabriel »

Hmm. I didn't know the older Double rays are so valueable. I got it fairly cheap for a good box (a bit over 300 euro) and it was already in playing condition. The wet tuning can be restored easily, the reed pans in question are just covered with paper...so I might just go and polish the slightly rusted grill up and cover the swastikas with something. Maybe a "my other box is a flute" sticker?
I guess I'll have to reconsider everything. Thanks for replying!
User avatar
JohnB
Posts: 200
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:08 pm
Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
Location: London

Re: So I got myself a box...

Post by JohnB »

Verena Commins plays a stripped down Hohner here:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8oBSOQhOoE

There's quite a lot of info re old hohners and discussions about swastikas on this forum (you'll have to search)

http://forum.melodeon.net/
User avatar
MTGuru
Posts: 18663
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:45 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: So I got myself a box...

Post by MTGuru »

Gabriel wrote:I got it fairly cheap for a good box (a bit over 300 euro) and it was already in playing condition.
Oh, that's a very good price, Gabriel. In fact, if you ever decide that the instrument is not for you, please let me know. My oversized Saltarelle box has always been a bit too heavy for me, and I sometimes think of replacing it with a smaller Double Ray or Bouëbe or something similar. Meanwhile, enjoy it!

Josephine Marsh plays a vintage Double Ray (it's the original accordion from her childhood), and it sounds great.
Vivat diabolus in musica! MTGuru's (old) GG Clips / Blackbird Clips

Joel Barish: Is there any risk of brain damage?
Dr. Mierzwiak: Well, technically speaking, the procedure is brain damage.
User avatar
StevieJ
Posts: 2189
Joined: Thu May 17, 2001 6:00 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Old hand, active in the early 2000s. Less active in recent years but still lurking from time to time.
Location: Montreal

Re: So I got myself a box...

Post by StevieJ »

JohnB wrote:Verena Commins plays a stripped down Hohner
Martin Quinn is another top player who uses a Double-Ray or Erica stripped down to the bare wood. And it sounds wonderful. Much of that may be down to Martin's playing, of course. And I've heard that he put some old Paolo Soprani reeds in it...

I had a Black Double-Ray probably from the 1960s or 1970s and it had swastikas, something I found curious rather than offensive.

In fact I posted a query about them on the previous melodeon.net forum, here it is:

http://melodeon.aimoo.com/category/Swas ... 24568.html

PS I sold the box to a Jewish friend who plays it quite happily.
Gabriel
Posts: 1755
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:35 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8

Re: So I got myself a box...

Post by Gabriel »

I put a layer of foam rubber on which I glued a strip of the material I use for flute key pads under the buttons...action is fine now, and it is easily reversible, just pull the strip out again. I think the B/C system is much easier than a C/G concertina...and the buttons are easier to hit for my stubby fingers. ;) It's really a fun instrument...

MTGuru, I'll keep you in mind if I'll ever sell this box. A friend has a C#/D Clancy accordion, it's really small in size and weight and sounds lovely...might look into that one day, if I decide to stay at box playing. But at the moment, it looks like I will...

Thanks for your input!
Mr.Nate
Posts: 470
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:00 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 10
Location: Colorado Springs

Re: So I got myself a box...

Post by Mr.Nate »

Hello,
I also have an old Honer double-ray with 12 basses that I bought from Micheal at Dancemaster accordions.

I saw the thread and thought that it was odd that yours has swastikas on it. I took a closer look at mine and yes there are two of those insignias on it left and right just like yours. It looks like they are just painted on and half of one of mine is partially rubbed off. My recommendation is to get some polishing compound with the lightest abrasive like you would use on a car and see if you can polish it off.

Just my 2c!

Nate
Whistling in the Rockies!!
User avatar
s1m0n
Posts: 10069
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:17 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 10
Location: The Inside Passage

Re: So I got myself a box...

Post by s1m0n »

My understanding of german law is that since the war its been illegal to display a swastika. Granted, the shape on this box is about as far from a nazi swastika as its possible to be while still being a swastika, but its making me wonder how Hohner managed to keep the design.
And now there was no doubt that the trees were really moving - moving in and out through one another as if in a complicated country dance. ('And I suppose,' thought Lucy, 'when trees dance, it must be a very, very country dance indeed.')

C.S. Lewis
Gabriel
Posts: 1755
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:35 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8

Re: So I got myself a box...

Post by Gabriel »

Yes, displaying a swastika is illegal here, if it is shown in a context that implies any kind of glorification of what it stood for in the nazi period. That's probably why Hohner continued using it - there's no connection between their symbol and what it stood for until 1945. I still don't like it.

If anybody wants to buy my Double Ray, let me know - I'm upgrading to a newly made B/C box in the end of january and might sell the Hohner...
Medibrew
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:48 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I am not (yet) a serious flute player, but I have two Radoslav Pakalev kavals, and I studied kaval for a time. Over the past few years, I have done a number of searches on this forum, and I have found it super informative. I am starting to think about switching from kaval to Irish flute. Somehow, that made me conclude that it's time to join the forum officially.

Re: So I got myself a box...

Post by Medibrew »

[Thread revival. - Mod]

I know this is an ancient thread, but in case there's anyone else out there wondering about options for removing the swastika from a Hohner box, I have some recent experience. Our 10-year-old daughter asked us for a couple months for accordion lessons, and after some time listening to different styles with her it was clear she wanted to learn traditional Irish. So we got a used Hohner Double Ray off eBay and found a teacher online. I was surprised to learn about the swastikas, and, historical artifact or not, I had no interest in giving swastikas to my daughter. I gently wet sanded them off with 800 grit sandpaper, and then buffed the haze out with a liquid plastic polish. It worked flawlessly! I got a beautiful shine with no scratches, and not trace of the swastikas left behind.

Danny
Post Reply