Why not mandocello?

[JTR]

I've seen postings suggesting mandocello isn't appropriate for TIM. Can someone explain that? Does the C sound bad with a guitar in DADGAD? I've got a mandocello which means I wouldn't have to try and justify another instrument purchase to my wife. I think the last time she said, "Um… why don't you learn to play the ones you have?" Like logic should come into the decision or something.

[MTGuru]

I know a fine Irish fluter named Tim. I don't know if he thinks mandocellos are appropriate, but you probably want to use the more common acronym/initialism ITM for Irish Traditional Music.

Whatever postings you've seen, IMO there's nothing inherently wrong with mandocello for ITM, depending on the player. It's about the same size as a full-scale zouk.

The standard CGDA tuning has some limitations for melodic playing; you're either mostly on the top 2 strings and sometimes above 1st position, or doubling tunes an octave below. Or, as with standard tenor banjo tuning, you can try restringing with lighter strings for GDAE or one of the zouk tunings.

DADGAD guitar has little to do with it, as you're just as likely to find guitarists playing in Dropped-D or standard tuning. And you don't necessarily want both guitar and zouk-thing pounding accompaniments at the same time anyway.

One of our session regulars here is a mandocellist who plays CGDA, mostly accompaniment, on a nice vintage Gibson A-style. I find his particular approach a bit bottom-heavy in the overall effect, but that's a matter of personal taste.

[Peter Duggan]

Whatever postings you've seen, IMO there's nothing inherently wrong with mandocello for ITM, depending on the player. It's about the same size as a full-scale zouk.

Yep, and the first person I thought of when reading this thread was Brian McNeill...

http://www.brianmcneill.co.uk/biog.htm

Not Irish and, yes, I know that pic's labelled 'Brian Bouzouki', but he's someone I've just associated with trad mandocello for ever!

[JTR]

Thanks for the correction and the information.

[MTGuru]

Thanks for the correction and the information.

Well, don't believe everything you read on the internet. Including us.

[JTR]

Another good tip. And in my defense, it might be completely inappropriate for TIM to be playing the mandocello. If he's a good flute player he should stick with it.

[s1m0n]

BEAD is another useful tuning. It's only a tone from the intended pitch but it works better with ITM.

The tastiest CBOM I've ever heard was a teens Gibson mandocello tuned BEAD. I'd kill for that sound.

Sean Tyrrell is the only ITM musician I know of who plays a vintage Gibson MC as his main axe.

[JTR]

Speaking of Gibson. I live about 10 miles from the old Gibson factory in Kalamazoo. I heard they are redeveloping that area and the factory is coming down. You can have the old smoke stack for $500,000. If anyone is interested I'll have them hold it for you. I hope you are really good at legos.

[MTGuru]

Yes, a shame. Though I guess I should be happy. My ES-347 is Kalamazoo-made, so it's worth a bit more as a vintage model.

[Feadoggie]

According to Tim, the mandocello is perfectly appropriate for his music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfmukQd_hf4

gadZooks! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdCgh-9WFgA Close enough?

Not quite mandocello depth, but getting there. I don't see why one wouldn't work with ITM. It's a matter of how you play it.

Speaking of Gibson. I live about 10 miles from the old Gibson factory in Kalamazoo. I heard they are redeveloping that area and the factory is coming down. You can have the old smoke stack for $500,000. If anyone is interested I'll have them hold it for you. I hope you are really good at legos.

I thought Heritage guitars were being made at the Parsons Street plant. Are they now gone too?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEAB5Bib02M Not exactly ITM but I'd think the mandocello would do the job if played well.

Feadoggie

[JTR]

Heritage is still there but they only use a fraction of that space as far as I can tell from reading local newspaper reports. Sounds like the smoke stack is coming down brick by brick and they will use it in the redevelopment.

[Feadoggie]

Ok. I Googled my way through the neighborhood around 225 Parsons street yesterday. The Heritage facade is nicely painted and well kept at this point, at least compared to how it looked when Gibson bugged out. I looks like much of the area has already been re-vitalized as well, I know that the folks at Heritage leased a lot of the factory space at the Parsons Street facility to other tenants when they took over in the mid eighties. ProCo Sound has a location there as far as I know.

The Gibson smokestack is right in the middle of the complex, How the heck are they going to dismantle that thing without tumbling onto and through the surrounding roofs? Hopefully someone will video/photo document the dismantling of the chimney.

I'm here near the Martin facilities. The company of course has not changed hands in 180+ years now. Martin has been able to maintain their local history along with the cooperation of the town, county and state quite well. The old Martin home is now the Nazareth Visitor's Center. And the old factory location next to the house serves as Martin's Guitar Maker's Connection where local luthiers go to buy guitar making materials. I love that place. Of course the modern factory is open and cooking.

It would've been nice if more of Gibson's early history had been better maintained. My hat is off to the folks at Heritage for doing what they have been able to do. But they of course have been limited by Henry's lawyers.

Time moves on.

Feadoggie

[Rob Sharer]

Back in the day, I used to play a teens Gibson mandocello Irish style, mostly because I thought it was horse cool and there were no interwebz to tell me it wasn't on! It can be a great voice in the right situation, much darker and less tinkly than the usual large mando objects one hears. That said, it's really not a great choice for any of the traditional modes of play in ITM.

The main issue is the scale length. At 24-3/4", it's actually too short to support a robust C string. Even with the massive .074s I used to use, the C strings would slap each other on account of the lack of tension at that length. Some folks string the things with a single C rather than a pair, but to me ear that's half the projection of the pair. I've heard tell of some real cannons in the 27" range, but I'd bet you'd end up mostly confined to playing cello-like lines at that scale.

I kept mine in GDAE for most of its tenure, but I can tell you that the 24-3/4" scale is very much on the long side for picking melodies. That high B is right the way up there! It can be done, but it's more of an athletic event than it ought to be. This is further complicated by the baseball bat dimensions of the neck. Having no truss rod to assist in resisting all the tension of 'cello tuning, the necks on these things were left massive and are a real handful, not the sort of thing you want for a handy shift up to B.

You can tune it to GDAD or ADAD, of course, but really the longer-scale bouzoukis do a much better job of this. So much of what is attractive, to both accompanists and the melody players they serve, about the bouzouki is the way the high, tinkly tones support the tunes without robbing too much bandwidth, the way even a guitar sometimes can. The mandocello has a certain snarl and midrange that's perhaps even more intrusive than a chunky guitar tone, which might suit certain objectives but is definitely not the usual thing in bouzouki accompaniment.

So, between the monster neck, unusual voice, and the way the scale length falls between two chairs, Gibson mandocellos are a dodgy fit for ITM. Of course, I'm sure you could take it and make it your own, as has Sean Tyrrell, but the exception proves the rule. As an aside, I have some recollection of Sean's mandocello having been modified in some way, re-necked or some such. If someone could provide clarification on that point I'd welcome it.

Cheers,
Rob

[Tunborough]

Not Irish trad, perhaps, but trad of a different sort. Sid Dolgay played mandocello in the iconic Canadian folk group, the Travellers. He passed away last month.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/mus ... e22439178/

[JTR]

Thanks for all the input. Sounds like it can be done but may be more effort than it is worth. I guess I'll keep playing mine until something else falls in my lap.