Advice for accompanists: a rant

[anniemcu]

I bet no one else has had THIS guy show up at their session........ ( behind the fiddler). Glad someone got evidence, how do you explain this to anyone????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORrJrAX9soA

Now *that* is rude! Wonder what the story behind that was??

[Nanohedron]

I bet no one else has had THIS guy show up at their session........ ( behind the fiddler). Glad someone got evidence, how do you explain this to anyone????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORrJrAX9soA

Now *that* is rude! Wonder what the story behind that was??

An excess of booze.

[chrysophylax]

This was at my regular wednesday gig. This guy just walked up and did this for about twenty minutes straight. I'm pretty sure he was out of his tree, but you have to admire the enthusiasm. The truly amazing thing is that he wasn't even close to being the most annoying participant I've ever seen at a session.

I'm going to add a couple of lines here, which I don't often do.

I wouldn't call this post "guitar bashing" seeing as most of the posters are themselves guitarists. The only point on the "DON"T PLAY" argument that I would add is the one that most respectable accompanists can pick up 95% of tunes on the fly (eg. by the second time through or so..). This takes years to be able to do, you have to familiar with all the different modes and common patterns of chord sequences and a sixth sense helps.... It also really helps if you know the person(s) you're accompanying, as you can read them a bit better.

This is REALLY REALLY hard to explain to someone who isn't familiar with accompanying Irish music... It's not as rigid as bluegrass or rock or blues or whatever they're used to, but the chords HAVE to be right and the rythm has to be DEAD on, or else you frankly won't be welcome to play. One rule I was taught, and I always pass on is that you should play as quietly as you can in a session until one of the leaders asks you to play a little louder. If they don't ask, you probably need more practice..

I guess I was lucky, starting the whistle at 9 years old and starting the guitar at 17 with a few hundred tunes already in my head, even though I mostly played ACDC on guitar for the first couple of years. The advantage of playing another insrument is invaluable, but as long as you have ears youu can listenand learn tunes.

Sorry if this was a ramble, probably the longest post i"ve ever written anywhere

[anniemcu]

chrysophylax, that is a good presentation of viewpoint. Thanks.

[meemtp]

Over the last 10 years, I've learned to regard someone unfamiliar showing up with a guitar with a healthy dose of suspicion. Fortunately, we've been lucky at the sessions I used to play at before moving out to the hinterlands. There's one session here that I went to once, it had two guitarists, a 5 string banjo player and an octave mandolin player, all trying to play accompaniment. It was obvious that not one of them was well-versed in ITM...sigh...it almost made me want to start playing accompaniment again.

As a melody player there's nothing worse than trying to play a tune with someone plonking along on guitar who doesn't know the tunes and hasn't immersed themselves in the idiom. They may be a good guitarist in another style, but this isn't just another style and it isn't guitar music. Rob is spot-on. My usual recommendation to a guitarist or beginning zouk player is to put their instrument away for a while and learn a melody instrument (as Rob S. says, a whistle is very accessible), a bunch of tunes, and listen to lots of CDs of solo or unaccompanied players. Then, revisit the accompaniment.

I started playing DADGAD for a while a few years ago because a couple of friends needed a backer for gigs and we didn't have many around. I was amazed at how easily it came after playing a melody instrument for the previous 8 years, and I hadn't picked up a guitar in 15 years! Got me a lot of gigs...a lot more than I do as a fiddle player and certainly more than I ever will as a piper!

This approach may not work for everyone, but I think it's good for many...just requires patience like any other facet of this music.

These days I prefer duet playing accompanied only by drones and regulators, and preferably in flat pitch But, in the right context, a nice backer can really add a lot. That's the "I'm not anti-guitar" disclaimer.

[Caj]

As a melody player there's nothing worse than trying to play a tune with someone plonking along on guitar who doesn't know the tunes and hasn't immersed themselves in the idiom

There's one thing worse: a plonker who simply cannot be corrected.

We welcome and encourage all newcomers, but once in a while it results in this conversation:

ME: "That tune was in E minor."
HE: "Yeah, that F chord really cast it in an interesting light!"

AAH! Or sometimes we get this one:

ME: "It's traditional for these songs to be unaccompanied."
HE: [with slight bitterness] "Yeah, I learned to sorta do my own thing instead of following everyone's set rules."

So sometimes by ego, and sometimes by full-blown reality distortion field, some people cannot or will not process the implication that they have just done something unmusical.

Mind you, most newcomers aren't like this: people want to learn more, they want advice and feedback, and they'll adapt if you tell them, "this is a polka rhythm." But a handful just can't exist in a universe where they have made a mistake.

Caj

[twistedlettuce]

hey so I've never been to a session before and I'm going to my first one next week. (I don't plan on playing, I got the point ) but I wanted to ask... as a n experienced but non-irish style guitarist is it cool to invent a melody within the rythmic constraints? I understand no fumbling or overpoweringness, but would basic harmony be considered rude also? I plan to learn all the tunes on my own time after the first session... it'll be a while before ill be able to join on violin but im curious if non traditional, but well written guitar harmony would be accepted as a variation, or would this make me that annoying newb of the session?

[twistedlettuce]

just to add... like I am a classical/jazz guitarist whose been doing ALOT of irish music studying, plus whistle and fiddle lessons. but my guitar style isnt accompaniment its another melody... I play all the rythmic things (3/4 6/4 jigs, reel) just its kind of 'funky'... should I just hold off with that or could that potentially work?

[fearfaoin]

I understand no fumbling or overpoweringness, but would basic harmony be considered rude also?

Probably. Irish is a very melody-centered genre. There aren't many people
who tolerate harmony. That said, it depends on who you're playing with. I
would suggest feeling out the session your first time to see how people are
playing. If you really have to throw in a harmony line, at least wait until the
second or third time through so people who are trying to latch onto the
melody can hear it unadulterated.

You'd be better off playing melody most of the time, and sticking to the
group's rhythms, too.

[anniemcu]

Hi Twisted,

I think it totally depends on the nature of the session and the focus of the players. I wouldn't interject that until after you are accepted as part of the group ... you could then ask them to listen and be prepared to accept their decision on whether they want that or not. You may well find at least one other person who wants to play it with a difference. That's how new groups are formed, after all.

[twistedlettuce]

cool.. to whit: DONT PLAY until your experienced enough to know it'll sound good and even then ask first if your not an established session leader and your playin somethin new... thanks for the quick answer I'm goin to my first session tonite confident I won't piss people off... thats a good start!

- whats a good website for an already experienced guitarist to see some examples of basic irish rythm playing? like get the reel, jig, slipjig rythms all down

[okewhistle]

I go regularly to a session where I don't know many of the tunes. I play mandolin and there are pipers and squeezebox players, so I doubt anyone could hear me anyway, but if I don't know the tune I just pretend to play. (confession).

I know its anoying for you purists if someone doesn't get it quite right, but wouldn't the best thing be to offer to help rather than tell them to shut the **** up? I would SO value one of the experienced players giving me a couple of hours of their time to help me along. Maybe I could make some noise a bit more often then.

[Redwolf]

I go regularly to a session where I don't know many of the tunes. I play mandolin and there are pipers and squeezebox players, so I doubt anyone could hear me anyway, but if I don't know the tune I just pretend to play. (confession).

I know its anoying for you purists if someone doesn't get it quite right, but wouldn't the best thing be to offer to help rather than tell them to shut the **** up? I would SO value one of the experienced players giving me a couple of hours of their time to help me along. Maybe I could make some noise a bit more often then.

I think it depends on the session. We have a couple of learners' sessions in our area where things like that are encouraged and people offer plenty of helpful feedback. It's a different situation, however, at the regular fast-play sessions. The people who go to those are generally friends who have been playing together for a while, and their goal, as musicians of a similar level, is to have fun making music together...not to teach newcomers.

People sometimes have a distorted view of sessions as something of a "come one/come all" situation, and that's not typically the case. I was at a session a few months ago with my harp and, after listening for a while, decided that I didn't know the tunes well enough to play accompaniment and left the harp in its case. A woman sitting next to me kept urging me to take it out and play and, when I'd explained that I wasn't up to the level of the session, she said "well, play something anyway, and they can adapt to you." I was quite shocked, and it took me a couple of seconds to realize that she really didn't understand session etiquette at all. I explained to her that it would be insufferably rude of me to insist on playing a tune without having been invited, or to force the other musicians to slow down while I worked out accompanying chords. She was really baffled...she figured that all sessions were like the learning/teaching sessions.

Redwolf

[Rob Sharer]

Bless you!

Rob

[Ro3b]

I would SO value one of the experienced players giving me a couple of hours of their time to help me along. Maybe I could make some noise a bit more often then.

Have you asked one of them to? Nobody is going to just come up and offer to give you lessons. But I bet people would be more than willing to give you help if you show that you're interested. Just say, hey, I'd like to get together with you and pick your brain about this stuff.

And being a "purist" is irrelevant. Sessions are not classes. They are social occasions where friends get together and play music. If some clueless person comes whanging in and ruins experience for everybody, you can't blame people for getting a little cranky.