mandolin for me

buddhu · Post by **buddhu** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:45 am

Steve L wrote:...
The J Bovier company is supposed to introduce a new line of flat top mandolin family instruments with cedar tops, radiused ebony fretboards and cast tailpieces soon. They might beinteresting.

I have just bought a J Bovier Tradition F5 style mando, and it is incredible for the money. I absolutely love it - in fact I chose it over one of the new Kentucky KM-1000s which I also tried. If their flat tops are of similar quality, I'll be shopping again.

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:53 pm

Something to be said for getting a cheapie for starters: if you like mandolin enough to spring for a nicer one, you can still keep the cheapie to take places where you wouldn't want to risk your good one eg camping,really crowded sessions with a lot of inebriated people, etc.
On the "you get what you pay for" subject, it seems that this is not a straight linear relationship. I'll certainly allow that a vintage Gibson F model will play and sound better than my $139 Chinese clone, but dang mine sounds and plays pretty good and I can't believe that the real Gibson is plays 100 or 200 times better (however you measure that). But that's just me-- maybe ignorance IS bliss

plunkett5 · Post by **plunkett5** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:27 pm

Sorry, double post.

plunkett5 · Post by **plunkett5** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:27 pm

Two observations from my experience of 15+ years of mandolin playing and buying. For a $500-800 budget look for used Gibsons oval holes. If you are willing to play a great sounding not perfect looking mandolin, there are loads of old A-Jrs and As that have a crack or finish flaws but sound worldclass. Do you want a player or a looker? I'm not putting down people who want perfect looking collectors items, but for the rest of us musicians, there are some great sounding mandolins out there. Respectfully- Mike

Lance_Wallen · Post by **Lance_Wallen** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:17 pm

brewerpaul wrote:Something to be said for getting a cheapie for starters: if you like mandolin enough to spring for a nicer one, you can still keep the cheapie to take places where you wouldn't want to risk your good one eg camping,really crowded sessions with a lot of inebriated people, etc.
On the "you get what you pay for" subject, it seems that this is not a straight linear relationship. I'll certainly allow that a vintage Gibson F model will play and sound better than my $139 Chinese clone, but dang mine sounds and plays pretty good and I can't believe that the real Gibson is plays 100 or 200 times better (however you measure that). But that's just me-- maybe ignorance IS bliss

The line starts to drop off eventually, it's like that with pretty much any instrument, but when you get to a level where even the smallest increase in instrument performance is a huge step for you then it becomes worth it I suppose.

For guitars, if you're an amateur you can get by fine on a cheap guitar as long as its not "too" cheap... playing on a 5000 dollar instrument isn't going tomake you better and you might actualy sound worse because it takes more skill to play a highly tuned and well set up guitar without messing up...

When you get better you hit a limit on the instrument and have to move up to those mid tier toys, once you get to where you're extremely good you start thinking "another thousand on the price is worth that purpleheart body and hand french polished finish" because at that point in your playing career you know that if you can handle the instrument as well as it can be handled then the better the instrument the better you sound and perhaps the better you'll play, but the steps in playability and sound become much smaller than the increments in cash you have to spend.

In my opinion, EVERYONE should start on a rough cheapy instrument but only to the point of getting familiar with what the instrument is, once you're familiar you pick up a nice mid range version, something that a pro wouldnt light on fire but probably wouldn't carry around and that's what you do your proper learning on.

Picking up a rough instrument for the first time to familiarize yourself with it gives you a great appreciation for what a decent mid range tool can do and imo it really speeds up yoru learning process because suddenly things are so much easier to work out.

buddhu · Post by **buddhu** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:59 am

Paul, you are in a privileged position, mate. Not many mandolins in the budget ranges come close to the Gloucester in terms of construction, playability and sound. The tops on those are thin and resonant and the necks and fretboards as straight as a die. The fretting is top-notch.

The only compromises are cosmetic. A thin, unpolished finish; that nasty headstock veneer and logo.

If the body was 1/4" to 1/2" deeper I honestly think the sound would rival at least one Gibson F9 that I know (owned by a friend, but not as hot as he thinks it is).

When some people talk about inexpensive mandolins they are talking about truly horrible pieces of cr*p which bear no resemblance to your nice Gloucester other than a coincidence of basic body shape.

I don't object to starting on a cheap mandolin per se, provided one hunts around and takes guidance on the bargains that exist. However, and with respect to any contrary opinions, any suggestion that one can start on just any of the cheap production line monstrosities to be found cluttering up guitar shops is unsound and unhelpful.

I have seen the look on the face of a former mando newbie who had given up trying to learn on a bit of £50 "Wesley" plywood with a cheese grater action, when he was handed a Breedlove Quartz to try a couple of chords on.

Personally, I don't like Breedlove mandolins, but that's not the point. The chap I'm talking about learned that some mandolins don't actually cut your fingers off, and they can sound full and sweet rather than tinny and pointless. He now has a perfectly good Eastman 505, and has started paying for pro lessons.

buddhu · Post by **buddhu** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:13 am

plunkett5 wrote:Two observations from my experience of 15+ years of mandolin playing and buying. For a $500-800 budget look for used Gibsons oval holes. If you are willing to play a great sounding not perfect looking mandolin, there are loads of old A-Jrs and As that have a crack or finish flaws but sound worldclass. Do you want a player or a looker? I'm not putting down people who want perfect looking collectors items, but for the rest of us musicians, there are some great sounding mandolins out there. Respectfully- Mike

That's quite true. Even in the UK, old Gibson As are not too hard to find - especially for ITM and folk players. The only difficulty is for bluegrassers, as most of those As over here seem to be oval hole, and the preferred F holes are a bit rarer.

I'm actually considering an Old Gibbo A for my next mando. I have a couple of adequate bluegrass axes, and I miss the oval hole sweetness of my old Eastman 504

crookedtune · Post by **crookedtune** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:50 am

brewerpaul wrote:On the "you get what you pay for" subject, it seems that this is not a straight linear relationship. I'll certainly allow that a vintage Gibson F model will play and sound better than my $139 Chinese clone, but dang mine sounds and plays pretty good and I can't believe that the real Gibson is plays 100 or 200 times better (however you measure that). But that's just me-- maybe ignorance IS bliss

I agree with you on this. It's not a linear formula, and there's definitely a point of diminishing returns. Regardless of its pedigree, it's still basically a box with wires strung across it.

The thing with great vintage instruments, though, is that they really do hold their value if well cared for. I have been playing vintage guitars, banjos and mandolins for many years, and have generally resold them at at least break-even, and more often a modest profit. They're not always THAT much better, but owning them is not an extravagence in the long run.

lordofthestrings · Post by **lordofthestrings** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:45 am

I agree with you on this. It's not a linear formula, and there's definitely a point of diminishing returns. Regardless of its pedigree, it's still basically a box with wires strung across it.

I completely agree; there are cheap instruments (like my mando) that play very well with minimal work invested after purchase. However, the best way to know if a cheaper instrument is what you are looking for is to actually play it. Buying one blind from eBay, etc. can be a gamble. You can indeed get very lucky, but there's also that chance that you get a dumper. And spending great gobs on a super fancy Gibson F9, etc. won't necessarily give you an advantage either, as was mentioned before.

You can also consider turn-over: if you but a cheaper instrument, and decide you either don't want to play any more, or get a poor instrument, it will be difficult to sell again if you seek to get money back. Granted, a cheaper instrument (I consider this the $50 to $300ish range) would be less money 'lost', but its still $X. A more expensive, nicer instrument will be easier to sell to someone looking to play, and you'd have a much better chance (IMHO) of getting money back out of it.

Just something to think about; I lived this nightmare trying to sell my Hohner 5 string; not a fancy or great instrument, but it worked, I just decided to stick to tenor primarily. I had it listed for over half a year on places like here and eBay before I finally got a bite.

Tim2723 · Post by **Tim2723** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:22 am

Even more than a privallaged position, the Fullerton Gloucester represents a statistical outlier in the mandolin world. It is a very well made instrument offered at a ridiculous price under bizarre windfall circumstances, the unique combination of which may never occur again in our lifetimes. It should not be considered in a discussion of 'cheap' mandolins.

When I talk about cheapos, I mean instruments that are so poorly made as to be nearly unplayable. Think 'Rogue'. It is a sad truth that many plywood top mandolins will simply not hold up to any use. The tops have a nasty tendency to collapse. The necks on many of these are prone to twisting and warping, and the accuracy of fret positions can be questionable at best. Does this mean that you can never find a playable one? Of course not. But the majority of players don't have the ability to play a lot of mandos before they buy. Most often, we are limited to a photo and description on an internet site. By going with popular manufacturers and targeting a better grade (hence moderate price tag) we hedge our bet of getting something that will promote and encourage a beginner.

I think that we all have something a little different in our minds when we say 'cheap' mandolins.

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:03 am

Tim2723 wrote:Even more than a privallaged position, the Fullerton Gloucester represents a statistical outlier in the mandolin world. It is a very well made instrument offered at a ridiculous price under bizarre windfall circumstances, the unique combination of which may never occur again in our lifetimes. It should not be considered in a discussion of 'cheap' mandolins.

.

(gloat)

buddhu · Post by **buddhu** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:28 am

brewerpaul wrote:
Tim2723 wrote:Even more than a privallaged position, the Fullerton Gloucester represents a statistical outlier in the mandolin world. It is a very well made instrument offered at a ridiculous price under bizarre windfall circumstances, the unique combination of which may never occur again in our lifetimes. It should not be considered in a discussion of 'cheap' mandolins.

.
(gloat)

Yup, me too!

bigpow5 · Post by **bigpow5** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:50 pm

Thanks for all your advice. I ended up getting an Eastman 604.

what a beautiful instrument. now I just need to figure out how to get started.

Tim2723 · Post by **Tim2723** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:05 am

Congratulations! A very nice choice. Pick long and prosper!

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mandolin for me

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