Starter Tenor Banjo Recommendations

[Ceann Cromtha]

My girlfriend plays Irish guitar and is interested in learning tenor banjo. Does anyone have any recommendations for an inexpensive starter for a Christmas gift? Thanks, Dan.

[Darwin]

My girlfriend plays Irish guitar and is interested in learning tenor banjo. Does anyone have any recommendations for an inexpensive starter for a Christmas gift? Thanks, Dan.

Define "inexpensive".

Take a look at the Gold Tone IT-250. Elderly Instruments has one at http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/ ... TIT250.htm

Also, fcrhristo has one for sale right here on this forum at http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=34526

[Jimbo]

Sorry guys (and Gals)
frchristo's one is sold.

[piperdoc]

difficult. not as easy as a starter guitar or 5 string. you certainly can't go wrong with a goldtone if you want to spend the money. there is a tenor deering goodtime that is slightly less expensive. then there is the issue of 17 or 19 fret. they are slightly different intruments in terms of playability. look here for some of the issues from a list which is heavy with people who really know:
http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/topic ... enor,banjo

there is also this site, which you have probably seen:
http://www.irish-banjo.com/

i don't agree with all his conclusions, or with his recommendations for instruments, , but he raises good issues. happy shopping

oh, yes. when you do get it, make sure it is set up (strung) for irish music. otherwise she will find it a bit confusing.

meir

meir

[Jayhawk]

Don't forget vintage tenors are out there. My local folk music shop had 3 when I bought mine. None were tuned for ITM, but they offerred to set it up for me (I did it myself, because I'm cheap and like a challenge).

There are some really good vintage instruments for less than $200 out there.

Eric

[Unseen122]

I got a vintage TB on teh way right now. The best is to check out the vintage Guitar dealers.

[MusicalADD]

(might as well recycle this thread rather than start a new, nearly identical one....)

I'll be starting tenor banjo soon. I had a chance to play an old, odd looking tenor recently (a Framus), and I caught the bug. I've since ordered a used Deering Goodtime tenor (open back, 19 fret) which should arrive in a few days. Definitely an impulse buy -- only time will tell whether it was the right choice for me.

I'll want to tune this to GDAE, so.... can anyone recommend string gauges? I know there are tenor banjo sets from D'Addario etc, but I'm unclear on which sets are meant for 17 fret-vs-19 fret, CGDA vs GDAE thing. What set gauge would I want for tuning a 19-fret tenor to GDAE? Or would I even need to know the exact scale?

Thanks!

[Tim2723]

I've been having great suscess with these on a 19 fret Gold Tone:

http://www.juststrings.com/jps-2020h.html

The gauges are .013, .020, .030, and .040.

[s1m0n]

Don't forget vintage tenors are out there. My local folk music shop had 3 when I bought mine. None were tuned for ITM, but they offerred to set it up for me (I did it myself, because I'm cheap and like a challenge).

There are some really good vintage instruments for less than $200 out there.

Eric

Seconded. There are hundreds of vintage no-name 17 or 19 fret TBs out there, all usually for sale for 175-150 dollars, a few with any significant problems. I have three, all bought for that range of prices - a 17, & a 19 one resonator-less, one with a maple-ply bolt-on (or off) resonator that works but not as well as a modern one, and one with a hard-case and a full-scale mordern-scale resonator. It was the most expensive, but it's the one I rarely play, as the resonator changes the balance, and not for the better.

If you get one with a maple neck (most I've seen have just that), there's usually only one other thing that could be wrong with it enough to prevent it from being a good 'irish' strung instruments.

The banjo equivallent of a bent neck is folding right where the rim meets the neck. It should be 180°; after time some start being a few degrees less, causing the action* to rise. Irish stringing is a lot higher in tension than original TB strings, which were usually as saggy as a five-string. A folding neck is usually compensated by lowering the bridge. Bridge-lowering is a process which eventually stops working as the angle increases*. At any time lowering the break-angle of the strings over the bridge somewhat decreases the energy transmitted to the top, making a quieter banjo. If you're buying a used banjo, check the action and bridge height, and you've eliminated most hidden problems in an instrument that seems otherwise playable.

The second-level repair is the addition of an angled wooden wedge between the neck and pot, which is the banjo equivallent of a neck reset. These can go on working for years, but I'd avoid buying one if I had the option, unless the prices was great and the tuners vintage, or something.

I like the thuddier sound of the vintage skin heads, but if you prefer the brighter sound of plastic it's a moderately easy change. You can do it at home or any music store repairman can do it for you for not much money. Going the other way (back to skin) is a little harder. Most of the vintage instruments you see have already been switched; this is often a set-up option made to get an instrument ready to sell. Besides, it gives the shop an excuse to mark up the price.

*Action = the height of the strings above the frets, which is usually worse the farther you go up the neck. When it gets too high, it takes a lot of strength to fret the string, and doing so stretches the string enough to change the pitch. Action that's too low allows a vibrating string to buzz on the frets, leading to much unhappiness.

[fearfaoin]

... one with a maple-ply bolt-on (or off) resonator that works but not as well as a modern one

What's the difference between that vintage
resonator and a modern one? Is it a design
issue or just materials? A resonator just
doesn't seem like a complicated enough
design to have much variance...

[MTGuru]

How timely. I just replaced my old custom phosphor bronze set with a D'Addario J63i nickel set (these) for Irish TB. They're fairly light - 12, 16, 23, 36, only ~45 lbs tension on my 1927 17 fret short scale May Bell. So far I like them. They seemed to hold their own in a fairly good sized session last weekend. Nickel wounds should last a bit longer, and it's nice to buy a set instead of customizing singles.

I think banjo string gauges can drive you crazy. You try different gauges and find what suits you and the instrument. If the Deering comes set up for CGDA, the strings may be too light to tune down effectively. If you're inclined, you can do your own gauge and tension calculations using resources such as the D'Addario string guide and the online string calculator:

http://www.daddario.com/upload/tension_chart_13934.pdf
http://wahiduddin.net/dance/guitar_string_calc.htm

[s1m0n]

... one with a maple-ply bolt-on (or off) resonator that works but not as well as a modern one

What's the difference between that vintage
resonator and a modern one? Is it a design
issue or just materials? A resonator just
doesn't seem like a complicated enough
design to have much variance...

It's one like this:








Wooden pot, no tone ring, maple ply resonator that bolts to the dowel, or doesn't. Resonator technology gets a bit more complicated than this on newer banjos, incorporating resonator flanges as well as the actual resonator. Most newer ones I've seen tend to be mostly metal, although the back of the resonator can be veneered.

[s1m0n]

OK, I lied above. There's one more thing to watch out for. The banjo pics above are from one on ebay right now, (zero bids, VERY hopeful 'buy it now' price of $375).




Notice the original ungeared tuners. You don't want ungeared tuners. Vintage grover banjo tuners look like this:



Hold out for a banjo with some of those.

[fearfaoin]

Wooden pot, no tone ring, maple ply resonator that bolts to the dowel, or doesn't. Resonator technology gets a bit more complicated than this on newer banjos, incorporating resonator flanges as well as the actual resonator. Most newer ones I've seen tend to be mostly metal, although the back of the resonator can be veneered.

Interesting. When you said "bolt on" I thought
you meant that it bolts onto the flange ring
like my wooden Deering resonator. You meant
that it bolts onto the dowel... crazy.

[Ptarmigan]

Hey Dan,
If your still looking, you might get some more ideas over on:

The Irish Tenor Banjo

Cheers
Dick