Last night I remembered that buried in my guitar case was a genuine tortoise shell pick that I got back in the mid '60s (when they were legal).
I dug it out and tried it on my mandolin. Man, what an improvement! The sound that came out was noticeably cleaner and sharper (not pitch ).
Has anyone found a GOOD substitute for genuine tortoise shell? I've tried Tortex, but it's not really similar. Genuine shell has a very hard surface which releases the string very precisely and cleanly.
For almost 40 years John Greven had toiled to find the perfect substitute for tortoise shell picks. This material fit the bill very nicely. After all, it was a fine substitute for the real thing back in Victorian times, so why not now? This is different than the material he uses for his pick guards, or for the picks he once made. This material is a polymerized animal protein that has many of the same physical properties as real turtle shell which makes it ideal for guitar picks. You could look at it as cultured turtle-shell. Many people who have tried picks made from this material cannot tell them apart from the real thing.
Never tried it myself, but i've heard good things about it.
I've tried both (and yes, I've been around long enough to own legal shell), and I cannot tell any difference between natural shell and Tortis. Any difference I've seen I attribute to my own imagination.
I think the first thing players notice about a natural shell is that it is thick. Many mandolin players use thin guitar picks that don't impart as much (or enough) energy to the strings. It has nothing to do with the base material, but the physical thickness of the pick. The second thing is that natural shell is very hard and smooth. This characteristic can be duplicated in plastic, but seldom is. Many players prefer the slip-resistance of a slightly rough surface and are willing to play with a rough pick. Natural shell is slightly hydrophilic (it absorbs water), a property very difficult to replicate. That's the characterisitic that makes shell 'feel' like shell.
The Tortis material (a polymer derived from a protein found in milk), replicates the most important properties of natural shell very closely. It has a similar elasticity (the ability to change its shape), and resilience (the ability to recover its shape). It is similar in hardness and density, and has much the same wear resistance characteristics.
Remember, the Victorians didn't use materials like shell, horn, hoof, hide, whalebone, baleen, and ivory just because they were beautiful. In most cases it wasn't even beauty they were after, but functionality. The early, primitive plastics were indeed poor substitutes. Yet if they had the array of polymers available to us today, they would have quickly embraced the change.
The biggest problem we face in finding synthetic materials for things like instrument plectrums is simply economics. There's no money in mandolin picks. People like John Greven are willing to spend decades in the search for better materials because they are dedicated musicians themselves who understand the desire on a personal level. But if Dupont Chemical were to bring the full weight of their research capabilities to bear on the problem, we'd have synthetic shell picks in a heartbeat.
Holy Moly! Those artificial tortoise picks are upwards of 20 bucks EACH! I don't like tortoise THAT much...
BTW-- the one tortoise pick that I have is actually not very thick at all, but it is still extremely rigid.
Has any made bone picks? Ivory?(Perhaps from old piano keys)
There's even a couple of the Tortis models that go for $30. They're all hand-made and very popular, so price is commensurate.
Your thin pick is likely a guitar pick. Although mandolinists of that era (and ours as well) tended to use thicker picks, the guitarists have always seemed to favor the thin ones. The hardness (approaching brittleness) is the earmark of the old shell picks.
Today the thicker pick is still sought by a great many mandolinists, and the synthetics follow that trend. If you'd like to try it out without dropping that much cash, look for the Dawg pick, the Golden Gate pick, Mock Tortoise, or just an extra-heavy plastic pick with the Fender or Gibson logo. These can be had in the $1 - $5 range. Once you've gotten used to a pick in the 1.5 - 3.0 millimeter thickness, you'll notice an even greater increase in volume from your mando. It's the thickness and acompanying stiffness that powers the strings. On a mandolin, there's an advantage to powering through the taught, double-courses with enough energy. These picks are not shell of course, but they give you an idea of what a classic, thick tortoise mandolin pick is like before you spend on the Tortise brand synthetic.
Picks of other materials like Bone, horn, abalone, mother of pearl, stone, fossil ivory, and even metal, are all being produced and many are featured at Elderly.com.
Mandolincafe.com has a lot of info on natural shell mandolin picks. If you're not familiar with that site, be aware that discussions of the buying and selling of natural shell, even antique shell, are forbidden topics. Indeed, all discussion of tortoise is a touchy subject there.
I have several tortois picks that I made from a comb given to me about 13 years ago. An antique dealer had bought a box of junk (er, inventory) and in the bottom was ladies comb that was broken in two. As I recall, there was enough material to make seven or eight small picks. I gave away one or two, lost one or two, and had one break. I've still got the rest (and no, you can't have one ).
I still look in antique stores, junk shops, and garage sales when I think about it. You never know what might turn up. Maybe tomorrow I'll run across a box with a damaged letter opener or bracelet or something in it.
Dow Mathis ∴
Boerne, TX Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently motivated fool.
dow wrote:Well, its the same material as hair, so it you burn it, it smells like burning hair. Of course, that's a bit expensive to find out, huh.
I don't know anything about tortoiseshell, but... burning celluloid picks is just about the funnest thing in the world. So you've really got nothing to lose.
Somewhere along the line I acquired a metal pick. A friend just gave it to me. It's not much fun for rhythm playing, due to the fact that it has absolutely zero flexibility. Of course, that's what makes it really good for playing solo lines.
I have no idea what metal it's made out of, but it looks about the same thickness as a Tortex .60mm pick I've got. Just curious if anybody else has any metal pick experience.
crookedtune wrote:Somebody's got a few on my local Craigslist, asking $30/per. How would one judge authenticity of the material?
I heard from this fellow. Apparently he found a limited source of genuine, pre-ban tortoise and has made some picks from them. They look really nice, and he seems like a good fellow, but apart from relying on the honesty of our fellow man there's no way to verify the shell. If I was really in the market for a $30 pick, something in me would probably trust him.
Tell us something.: I am not spammer, I am a human being!! More power to those that foil them!!! The brown fox jumped over the red fence, for what reason, we can not tell you...
Well...$20 to $30 may seem a bit steep, but it is well worth sparing a poor turtle. Especially if the tonal benefit are good! If they do wonders for mandolin, I wonder if they would help the tone of the cittern?
This might be good news for sarod players too, as normal guitar picks sound are utterly useless for them. Tortoise shell picks used to be the thing years ago, but now they use coconut shell pieces carved down to size. Yet coconut seems a bit too hard and gets splintery after a few hours of playing. I kept on having to sand and re-oil mine.
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I made a few picks in january from brass stock as an expirament. I really like how they sound on my tenor banjo. I like a very pointed pick, so making my own (or modifying mass produced pics) is necessity.
I have a few pieces of ivory covering for piano keys, it never occured to me to make pics from them! I'll see if I can find it, and give it a try. It is very old, though, may be too brittle...
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That would be interesting. Be sure to let us know how it works out.
Oddly, it doesn't seem like ivory was a popular material in the pre-plastic days. Maybe you're right about it being too brittle. The veneer of a piano key is pretty thin too, but it would be interesting to try.
crookedtune wrote:Somebody's got a few on my local Craigslist, asking $30/per. How would one judge authenticity of the material?
I heard from this fellow. Apparently he found a limited source of genuine, pre-ban tortoise and has made some picks from them. They look really nice, and he seems like a good fellow, but apart from relying on the honesty of our fellow man there's no way to verify the shell. If I was really in the market for a $30 pick, something in me would probably trust him.
I wouldn't touch TS with a 10 foot pole. Not necessarily because of any legal issues, but simply because I think the reasons for the ban are very good (as are the reasons for Mandolincafe banning the discussion/sale etc of TS), and I really don't think it's safe to trust people who would deal in it.
YMMV.
And whether the blood be highland, lowland or no.
And whether the skin be black or white as the snow.
Of kith and of kin we are one, be it right, be it wrong.
As long as our hearts beat true to the lilt of a song.
).
).
