Chiff and Fipple Forums

MarkB · Post by **MarkB** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:30 pm

'W' Gets Its Own Place in Swedish Language
Sun Apr 23, 3:20 AM ET

The letter 'W' has entered the mainstream of the Swedish language, getting its own section for the first time in the country's most respected dictionary.

While 'W' has long been a letter in its own right in other Nordic languages, Swedish linguists have always viewed it as a lesser sibling of the letter 'V,' as the two letters are pronounced identically in Swedish.

The few Swedish words that use 'W' have generally been borrowed from other languages — such as "watt," "walkie-talkie" and the "World Wide Web" — and have so far always been lumped under the 'V' section in dictionaries.

Sweden is called "Sverige" in Swedish and its language is named "Svenska."

But the Swedish Academy, which awards the Nobel Prize in literature and whose members are considered the guardians of the Swedish language, decided it was time for 'W' to come out of the shadows.

The letter, called "double-v" in Swedish, "can no longer be sorted in under the single V," the academy said when it introduced the 13th edition of its dictionary this week.

The change means that the Swedish language, at least according to the academy, now has 29 letters instead of 28.

Copyright © 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.

MarkB

Congratulations · Post by **Congratulations** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:34 pm

Neat!

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:38 pm

I want to see Þ (thorn) and ð (eth) reintroduced to the English alphabet.

Innocent Bystander · Post by **Innocent Bystander** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:08 pm

Nanohedron wrote:I want to see Þ (thorn) and ð (eth) reintroduced to the English alphabet.

Damn right! I'll second that (even though I always called the second one "dhagaz", and the first one "tharn").

D'yez think there's any chance of the Irish language recognising the letter "Q"?

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:14 pm

Innocent Bystander wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:I want to see Þ (thorn) and ð (eth) reintroduced to the English alphabet.
Damn right! I'll second that (even though I always called the second one "dhagaz", and the first one "tharn").

D'yez think there's any chance of the Irish language recognising the letter "Q"?

It's functionally there as a broad consonant, anyway.

"Tharn" and "dhagaz"? Where are those names from?

djm · Post by **djm** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:32 pm

Nano wrote:"Tharn" and "dhagaz"? Where are those names from?

Ye Olde Englishe writing had several characters that are still used in other Nordic alphabets, but which disappeared from English long ago as Latin and French increased their influences. The character called "tharn" looks a lot like the modern "Y", but was pronounced "th". It is the root of the problem of the word "Ye", which never did exist in English. People saw the character tharn in older documents and misinterpreted the word as "Ye" when it was all along pronounced "The".

Neat, eh?

djm

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:38 pm

djm wrote:
Nano wrote:"Tharn" and "dhagaz"? Where are those names from?
Ye Olde Englishe writing had several characters that are still used in other Nordic alphabets, but which disappeared from English long ago as Latin and French increased their influences. The character called "tharn" looks a lot like the modern "Y", but was pronounced "th". It is the root of the problem of the word "Ye", which never did exist in English. People saw the character tharn in older documents and misinterpreted the word as "Ye" when it was all along pronounced "The".

Neat, eh?

djm

Yes, I knew that, but my question was about the names. I've known them as "thorn" and "eth" (or "edh", if you like). "Tharn" is familiar enough, but "dhagaz" is utterly unknown to me.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:59 pm

Anyone? Google is of no help whatsoever.

dubhlinn · Post by **dubhlinn** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:25 pm

Nanohedron wrote:Anyone? Google is of no help whatsoever.

You find that surprising?

Slan,
D.

Lambchop · Post by **Lambchop** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:42 pm

. . . Oooo! Something educational! . . . <bookmarks thread> . . .

buddhu · Post by **buddhu** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:12 am

Uh... Bet you can't guess what went through my mind when I saw this thread title.

But then I realised that this was the pub, not the rubber room, so I took a look.

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:41 am

buddhu wrote:Uh... Bet you can't guess what went through my mind when I saw this thread title.

But then I realised that this was the pub, not the rubber room, so I took a look.

Waldco?

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:00 am

Post by **Nanohedron** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:36 am

dubhlinn wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:Anyone? Google is of no help whatsoever.
You find that surprising?

Slan,
D.

Less and less.

Innocent Bystander · Post by **Innocent Bystander** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:30 pm

Sorry, Nano. I've been at work and whatnot, or I would have answered ye. I came across these letters first as Runes, and the names stuck with me. If you Google "Futhark" (the name of the alphabet) you might get something along the right lines.