Trees

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Re: Trees

Post by Nanohedron »

Mr.Gumby wrote:This is a great Redwood, the tree Lady Agusta Gregory sat under to contemplate the celtic twilight, or whatever she did there:
Just noticed in the monochrome photo there's someone in the tree: To the right in the fork, you can see a lower leg and boot.
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Re: Trees

Post by AuLoS303 »

Prunus cerasifera putting on a show

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Re: Trees

Post by GreenWood »

A beautiful light you have in Ireland Mr. Gumby , and the pictures are lovely. It brings to mind a memory of the Isle of Man, there was a water powered carousel in a glade there, and I remember it something like that. Parts of Galicia are known by artists for their light also, but here in Algarve it is unusual, it is usually slightly misty and there is often a temperature inversion or gradient that is like being in a bubble somehow.

This picture shows that a little. Daffodils, not bluebells so much here
Image

Portugal was attached to the northeast coast of the US, and when Pangea fractured Algarve sank underwater for millions of years as Iberia floated around, eventually joining onto France. Europe meeting Africa pushed Algarve back out of the water, so it is tens to hundreds of meters of carbonate on top of salt deposits (as the sea filled in the original fracture and evaporated) , and that on top of more ancient rock. Sometimes these salt deposits form diapers which rise to the surface, because they are lighter and slightly fluid, so there are salt mines here also.

Image


The flora of the region is documented back to the last glaciation, from polen in sediment deposits, which is very interesting. During the glaciation Algarve was a refugia for people (along with some places in southern France), the rest being frozen steppe. As the ice retreated those few thousand people moved north, to Ireland also, and it seems coastal travel, probably by boat, was chosen. The slightly later megalithic culture stretches from Portugal to Ireland, through western France by roughly the same route . The change of flora during neolithic (grazing) is obvious in these samples, as well as the Roman conquest because vast amounts of wood were harvested to smelt silver in nearby Rio Tinto... the Romans were into large industry. Since then the flora has been something like it is now I think, some germanic tribes pillaged their way through to Africa (e.g. the Vandals) where they dissappeared , the Visigoths (another) mostly "lived in the ruins of Rome" in Iberia , before infighting and the Moors, who almost walked their way up to France and ruled for nearly seven hundred years in some places. They brought the oranges I think, but it is only the modern extensive monoculture that is damaging (and to insects also).


Iberia was only fully "reconquered" in 1492 when the Kingdom of Granada fell. 19th century maps of Spain still show the Kingdom of Granada as a territory, as opposed to how it has all been redrawn nowadays.


https://regiondegranada.org/hitos-histo ... e-granada/

I say "reconquered" because the Iberians are not Romans, franks or goths (or Moors). The Moors were not Arabs either, only their leaders (roughly 10% of population apparently ), the rest were north African Berbers. So there is this great confusion between say cultural authority and ancestry/ethnia...and it's not me who is going to set anything straight either.

Anyway, I feel very at home here...the rest of europe sort of came afterwards .


......

Myxomatosis is very upsetting , the blindness is temporary from swelling and sinus blockage, but the rabbits then become weak and preyed upon or starve. They breathe through their noses not the mouth so once their noses are blocked also they find it very difficult. Even two weeks of nursing 24/24 was not enough for ours... saline nebuliser, decongestant, antibiotics for possible secondary infection. Those were escaped pets and one wild one that all lived in our garden in Spain, we caught them when we moved and they are house/terrace bunnies only. So they didn't go through the full works and vaccines etc. (which are available, but for the "wild ones" obviously not). Our wild one just sat quietly through it with some swelling though, they have immunity from being descended from survivors of outbreaks in the wild.


I know Oz is a different story, but I have an ethical conundrum on morality wrt all the same...

I look on people as part of nature, though not always a very good part. If rabbits hitch a ride to Oz via people then that is also nature ? Is it also nature that people release a virus on them to control their numbers ? I'm not sure it is right even with best intentions.


This is just one error leading to another maybe, or possibly shows how reckless people can be. Now there is RHD, which first appeared in China in 1984, but which China says came from rabbits from Germany... but it was never an epidemic in europe and existed only as an unnoticeable background virus that caused no ill. That severe strain from China was then let loose in Australia (it escaped/"escaped" from a test island), and is since then travelling around the world. I looked at the attempts at phyllogeny and they aren't able to trace what is going on, or say definitely where outbreaks or new strains actually come from. So that has taken out 50 to 80 % of rabbits left in europe e.g.

http://www.iucn-whsg.org/RabbitHemorrha ... seInEurope

Or from US this report (warning graphic)

https://news.vin.com/default.aspx?pid=210&Id=9597414



And it is the same with trees and flora. IOD is unusual as they cannot exactly place why it is occuring (as far as I know). A couple of centuries ago they lost almost all their vinyards in the south due to bacteria also, in Ireland the potato famines is notorious. These are partly due to a form of monoculture, but Ash trees?


.......

Anyway, I wrote this a while back and didn't finish it till now...your photos dissappeared for some reason . I will see if I am up to recording bluebells in the glen, it is a lovely tune... to offer a version on flute might give an idea to how it might sound on wind instrument...have learned it.

@ chas

Don't you have to wear those sort of nail things to play them. I love the sound of that guitar also, but haven't had one in my hands yet.

@AuL

It looks like it is covered in snow, very beautiful.


.....

These are a few more photos from around here

Cane (also in the top photo)... lots of cane in this part of the world...

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....with an orange orchard in foreground...

Image


....prices are so low sometimes (imports from SA apparently) that often oranges are just dumped...

Image


Bluegum, could be Australia at times.


Image


A fig orchard, and the figs here taste like no other...

Image


.... a pruned a Carob tree... wasn't me :-) ... Carob fruit (pods?) are like caramel , when picked before they harden...


Image

...one of our favourite horses that we find on our walks... they like carobs so we almost always carry some with us... her name is Thinker... at least, that is what we call her

Image


And...I feel like I've just written a travel guide.
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Re: Trees

Post by Mr.Gumby »

Great stuff. I like seeing other people's enivironment and how they respond to it.
.your photos dissappeared for some reason
Yes, They are on the clock and disappear after a set time, usually after a month. I have had a lot of photos I posted here in the past, mostly the shots of musicians, misappropriated used, re-used and stolen. Copyright doesn't mean much in the days of Google image. So I extensively watermark thyem and limited their time online. Don't want to much of a recognisable online presence in any case anyway.

Daffodils are in full flight now, it's a bit on the early side for bluebells although I landed at a little hidden cemetary around a ruined medieval church last sunday where a rare white variety of bluebell had a presence, quite the lovely seclided and sheltered spot, a bit of a suntrap I imagine.

Geologically the West of Ireland has a similar sort of history, there are rocks here that were once connected to the east of Canada before the landmasses floated apart. Not too far north of here there's an area of the Burren that was once seafloor, limestone, loads of fossilised remains of shells and corals very apparent.

Image

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The cracks are where the flowers grow, this time of year it's primroses that bring the first bits of colour.

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In the valleys you get what is sometimes called 'the Celtic rainforest' : a cover of hazel shrub, whitethorn and blackthorn humid conditions very suitable to moss and ferns.

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Closer to home, there's a lot of bog. Here's one I took during the first lockdown, staying within travel restrictions, about a mile up the road from where I live. Every few years there's a big bloom of bogcotton, covering the place in white.

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Re: Trees

Post by AuLoS303 »

Some Maples
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Image

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Re: Trees

Post by Nanohedron »

GreenWood wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:36 pmImage ....prices are so low sometimes (imports from SA apparently) that often oranges are just dumped...
I find this waste upsetting. Surely there must be a use for these oranges - charity, at the very least - rather than leaving them to rot on such a scale. Or is that considered composting?
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Re: Trees

Post by Mr.Gumby »

I find this waste upsetting.
And it is, obviously. But it is a symptom of (western) food production that has been in place for decades. I remember when I was young, we would drive through a nearby area that had a large amount of greenhouses. Often you would see whole fields covered knee deep in tomatoes. They failed to make a minimum price and rather than having them sold off cheaply, given away or used for anything at all beneficial they were dumped or at best fed to cattle/pigs. And the same would happen with other vegetables, fruit etc. Hundreds of tons of decent produce left to rot.
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Re: Trees

Post by Nanohedron »

Mr.Gumby wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:09 am
I find this waste upsetting.
And it is, obviously. But it is a symptom of (western) food production that has been in place for decades. I remember when I was young, we would drive through a nearby area that had a large amount of greenhouses. Often you would see whole fields covered knee deep in tomatoes. They failed to make a minimum price and rather than having them sold off cheaply, given away or used for anything at all beneficial they were dumped or at best fed to cattle/pigs. And the same would happen with other vegetables, fruit etc. Hundreds of tons of decent produce left to rot.
All the more evidence that I'm no businessman, because I don't get it. Looks to me like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face, instead.
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Re: Trees

Post by GreenWood »

No, it isn't composting. They are dumped on abandoned land, roadside etc. In one place an owner put up a barrier tape to discourage this. After a while the whole area around has the air of a Cointreau distillery.


Though it seems a waste, I suppose that is where oranges would end up (on the floor) but for people picking them ? I don't know the whole story...so...in Spanish because I still find it easier/faster to read than Portuguese...

https://sevilla.abc.es/andalucia/cordob ... ticia.html

https://www.portalfruticola.com/noticia ... -se-hunde/


...they say a farmer needs to sell 18kg of oranges to profit enough to buy a coffee (a dollar basically) . "Navel lane late" (common variety) is at under 15 cents per kg (8 cents lb) wholesale.

Markup to supermarket is 10 to 15 times...so if you are wondering why people don't buy more (and so those that are dumped), that could explain ?

At wider market level though, low price is due to imports vs costs in own country (labour, fuel etc.). First four months of season of imports to europe were 718 000 tonnes. Therefore they leave the oranges on trees, or dump them (to keep orchard clean) , or possibly dump all but high grade after sorting. I guess there are better years if crops elsewhere fail, but this story has been going on for a few years at least, and the dumping.


None of that makes good sense though, and also you would think that even if a farmer had to deliver 20 tonnes to cover cost and profit a thousand dollars, he (or she) would do that. It is possible there are extra costs like delivery between wholesale price and farmer, or simply not the infrastructure to handle high volumes (inc. imports) . Still, new orchards appear as well continuously, so maybe there is subsidy or tax breaks at work, or it is reckoned as an investment all the same. I don't think there is much subsidy however, in Spain they had large protests recently over this sort of reality.

There aren't too many prickly plants around here, but the Seville orange (bitter) has spines, as do some pear trees...brambles and roses, not much else except agave, and some palms... and these


Image

which are from your part of the world and considered invasive. Those are honey locust, but I think there are black locust around also.

Just now quince is in bloom, here just starting to go into leaf at the same time

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and this one in full leaf.

Image


The fruit are often not picked (as visible), being partly abandoned orchard... I guess birds eat them ? There are abandoned fig , almond, pomegranate, pear and plum as well ...as many olives as you could pick. Here are oranges in blossom , they often fill the valley with their scent.

Image


These are all photos from yesterday... that is how it is here now.
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Re: Trees

Post by Nanohedron »

GreenWood wrote:... which are from your part of the world and considered invasive. Those are honey locust, but I think there are black locust around also.
Yes, honey locust abounds (introduced in my locale, which up to now would be slightly further than its northernmost natural reach). Thornless cultivars get planted all over as residential street trees; no flowers, no pods, no thorns, just lacy foliage - for they they grow quickly where trees are desired, the soil sketchy, and impatience rules. There are two in front of my building. And they are indeed invasive: even without seeds, they propagate by root extension, which accounts for one of the two aforementioned. That volunteer just wouldn't be killed (the others were not so hardy before the lawn mower), but the prospect of extra shade being welcome, I gave in and tended it, for in its infancy it threatened to grow into a most awkward and ridicule-provoking thing right out of Dr. Seuss (maybe due to the beating I gave it?), so it needed a bit of guidance to grow into a more socially acceptable urban presentation. Fortunately the young tree was amenable to my efforts, and after a few years the local Park Board guys assumed it had been professionally planted. So that went well.

But here's how thorny they can be, especially in the wild:

Image

As you can see, such thorns pose a real hazard. They can even puncture tires, and were used indigenously as awls and tattooing needles. No doubt early colonial settlers used them as nails, they're that tough. It's thought that they evolved to prevent the old megafauna from eating the tree, but the thorns are in clumps that are too widely-spaced to ward off smaller four-leggeds like hungry deer. One wonders what the squirrels would think of hanging out there.

The local streets used to be lined with stately elms, but those were killed off by Dutch Elm Disease - you almost never see elms anymore - so honey locust provided a quickish solution to the need for shade. Unlike that of elms, though, honey locust shade is dappled, but that's nice in its own way. Hackberry - another indigenous tree - gets planted too, but less often. Ginkgos are popular, as well as basswood (or linden or lime, as you prefer). Maples, of course, but the city go-to seems to be the honey locust, which makes sense, because they're cheap and fast, and despite their shortcomings look attractive, giving city planners some breathing room.

Where I live, and points west until the Great Plains, it mostly used to be oak savannah, indigenously managed by controlled burns which kept the undergrowth and ticks down, and the grasses succulent. Easy to hunt, farm, and live in - like an enormous open parkland - but apparently that wasn't good enough for the newcomers. IIRC, somewhere locally we have only one small stretch of native oak savannah left, and it's being preserved. The rest is urban "forest" and rural stands, but for as nice as it is, it's all introduced and re-conceived.
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Re: Trees

Post by Katharine »

Great pictures, everyone. All I have around here are suburbs... more suburbs... nothing but suburbs... Mind you, I like also being near things I want to do and not having to drive two hours to the grocery store (or any further than I already have to to get to work), but sometimes people and concrete get old. And it's good to see that there's spring *somewhere*... here we had snow yesterday and below-freezing temperatures today. These are the times when I start to think that maybe this year spring won't come...

Mr.Gumby wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 6:09 am
I find this waste upsetting.
And it is, obviously. But it is a symptom of (western) food production that has been in place for decades. I remember when I was young, we would drive through a nearby area that had a large amount of greenhouses. Often you would see whole fields covered knee deep in tomatoes. They failed to make a minimum price and rather than having them sold off cheaply, given away or used for anything at all beneficial they were dumped or at best fed to cattle/pigs. And the same would happen with other vegetables, fruit etc. Hundreds of tons of decent produce left to rot.
...to be able to hook up with them for all of the food pantries all over!!
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Re: Trees

Post by Nanohedron »

Katharine wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:13 pm ... here we had snow yesterday and below-freezing temperatures today. These are the times when I start to think that maybe this year spring won't come...
Tell me about it. Of late it's unseasonably cold here, too - parka weather, really, and in late March, of all things - although the snow and ice have mostly melted due to a cruel warm snap that made us let our guard down. I've often said that our weather is best described as "wild mood swings", but while it still applies, it's way more challenging now than it used to be. I can no longer tell myself that maybe I'm just imagining it.
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Re: Trees

Post by benhall.1 »

Nanohedron wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:33 pm
Katharine wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:13 pm ... here we had snow yesterday and below-freezing temperatures today. These are the times when I start to think that maybe this year spring won't come...
Tell me about it. Of late it's unseasonably cold here, too - parka weather, really, and in late March, of all things - although the snow and ice have mostly melted due to a cruel warm snap that made us let our guard down. I've often said that our weather is best described as "wild mood swings", but while it still applies, it's way more challenging now than it used to be. I can no longer tell myself that maybe I'm just imagining it.
Here in the UK, it's been unseasonably warm ... even hot, which is unusual for March.
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Re: Trees

Post by Mr.Gumby »

Unusual but not unheard of. Just spent some time enjoying the sunshine, ovelooking the ocean while eating ice cream. 18° celsius, but that is not going to last: tomorrow temperatures will drop by 10°. But staying dry, so there's that.
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Re: Trees

Post by Nanohedron »

benhall.1 wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:06 am
Nanohedron wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:33 pm
Katharine wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:13 pm ... here we had snow yesterday and below-freezing temperatures today. These are the times when I start to think that maybe this year spring won't come...
Tell me about it. Of late it's unseasonably cold here, too - parka weather, really, and in late March, of all things - although the snow and ice have mostly melted due to a cruel warm snap that made us let our guard down. I've often said that our weather is best described as "wild mood swings", but while it still applies, it's way more challenging now than it used to be. I can no longer tell myself that maybe I'm just imagining it.
Here in the UK, it's been unseasonably warm ... even hot, which is unusual for March.
For at least the past three months, here the pattern's been way zig-zaggy, with above-average warm spots alternating with more lengthy well-below-average temps. We've lately seldom hit, much less stayed at, what have historically been considered seasonal averages, instead banging remarkably high and remarkably low. Time will tell if this signifies a hiccup or a trend, but I'm starting to wonder if "seasonal average" has any real meaning anymore.
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