Irish Music and neo-Nazis

[Wombat]

Australians aren't big on flag waving. At primary school in my day we pledged an oath of allegiance on a daily basis to the British Queen. I really have no idea what most of us made of it.

Long before multiculturalism, I distinctly remember as a child walking past the one house (amongst many thousands) in the neighbourhood I grew up in that actually had a flag pole in the front garden. I still remember thinking that it was one of the oddest things I'd ever seen. I never actually saw a flag on it that I can remember although the Australian flag might have gone up occasionally. But I remember thinking: why on earth would anybody want a flagpole in their front garden? Everybody who lives here is Australian. Who would you be sending a message to? I was mystified then and I'm mystified now.

I don't think I've ever seen a flagpole in a private garden in Wollongong. You see flags at public ceremonies and at international sporting events. That seems about right to me. In case you think that Australia is not a very conservative place, we have had a conservative federal government in power for over 10 years.

BTW, I have no idea how anybody could make a link between white supremicist groups and celtic music of any style.

[The Weekenders]

Every school is different, thankfully and you just never know.

I was really proud of the school that I volunteered at, because the teachers REFUSED to adopt the math texts that the district chose, which were very trendy outcome-based and which elicited bi-partisan eye-rolls from teachers and parents. Two years later, we were courted by the textbook company reps and chose something more sensible. Hey, that was an eye-opener in itself. Don't get me started about textbooks. CSkinner has written for some and probly has her share of stories if she is viewing this.

[missy]

ah - yes - textbooks.....
I took "offense" at a 5th grade science textbook that defined a "metal" as something "hard and shiny". I told my son to ask his teacher about mercury (at least at earth's atmospheric pressures).

[The Weekenders]

Well, as an example of rewriting history, the Houghton-Mifflin text for California history has a whole page illustration with text of a Spanish-California cowboy. Only problem is, they changed the gender and call it "La Vaquera" instead of El Vaquero. There is a female with what you might know as a gaucho hat, and other accoutrements of the early cowboys. Trouble is, ladies wore dresses and had an elaborate side saddle when they rode.

It's a complete fabrication and mangling of our cultural heritage in order to somehow send the message of equality in the sexes.

[Wormdiet]

It's a complete fabrication and mangling of our cultural heritage in order to somehow send the message of equality in the sexes.

I teach history in a public school in Noprth Carolina. AP Courses, luckily, so I do get to choose my own books.

But in case anybody was wondering, ideological textbook doctoring cuts all sorts of ways.

I do kind of resent the implication that I'm responsible for the growth of skinhead groups.

[The Weekenders]

It's a complete fabrication and mangling of our cultural heritage in order to somehow send the message of equality in the sexes.

I teach history in a public school in Noprth Carolina. AP Courses, luckily, so I do get to choose my own books.

But in case anybody was wondering, ideological textbook doctoring cuts all sorts of ways.

I do kind of resent the implication that I'm responsible for the growth of skinhead groups.

I'm sure you do your best, Vermi. But the larger ideological directions of curriculum and school culture have to be on the table and teachers are told what to teach and what to emphasize.

it's really perverse. The more my son's current high school emphasizes diversity, the more polarized the kids become. Many of them will tell you it, not just my boy.

We are the great laboratory out here. I have no idea what goes on there. But the much-lauded "dumbing down" of education in order to make children feel good over nasty achievement standards could have a definite impact on critical thinking. I think enough noise has been made about it that things are changing.

Imagine teaching this lesson: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=25997

[Wombat]

But in case anybody was wondering, ideological textbook doctoring cuts all sorts of ways.

I do kind of resent the implication that I'm responsible for the growth of skinhead groups.

I'm sure you do your best, Vermi. But the larger ideological directions of curriculum and school culture have to be on the table and teachers are told what to teach and what to emphasize.

In the days before multiculturalism, I think history teachers would have lost their jobs if they'd told the truth about Australia's past. Were you taught about what happened to the Cherokee nation? We weren't taught about the killing of aborigines although there were a few hints that dispossession hadn't happened by fair play.

Either you teach this stuff or you don't. In Australia the history wars are being fought between those who see history as a sort of exercise in feelgood nationalism and those who don't want to write the ugly episodes out of history. That's how I see it. Our government won't even tell the truth about it's treatment of asylum seekers a few months ago.

it's really perverse. The more my son's current high school emphasizes diversity, the more polarized the kids become. Many of them will tell you it, not just my boy.

What's the alternative as you see it, Weeks? Diversity is a fact of life and the 20th century shows that we haven't found a civilised way of handling it. By civilised I mean a way of living with diversity that doesn't involve people coping with diversity simply by adopting a them-and-us attitude. In an increasingly globablised world, I don't see multiculturalism as some sort of liberal luxury but as the only currently available option which directly addresses this unavoidable fact of life; either we find ways of getting along or we are doomed. I just can't see how emphasising nationalism could have any role to play in finding a solution. If multiculturalism fails I simply don't see a future. Of course, some ways of implementing the idea are downright stupid but abandoning it for what, uniform nationalism, would surely be a disaster unless international relations and the global economy are organised very differently.

We are the great laboratory out here. I have no idea what goes on there. But the much-lauded "dumbing down" of education in order to make children feel good over nasty achievement standards could have a definite impact on critical thinking. I think enough noise has been made about it that things are changing.

There has indeed been a dumbing down of education. I don't see why teachers are to be held primarily to account for this, though. I think the grasp that the corporations have on the minds of our youth through highly effective advertising targetting the very young, turning them into consumers and trivialising their entertainment has every bit as much to do with the problem. There are lots of other factors too, especially the withering of grass roots democracy and teh dumbing down of the media.

[burnsbyrne]

Australians aren't big on flag waving. At primary school in my day we pledged an oath of allegiance on a daily basis to the British Queen. I really have no idea what most of us made of it.

Long before multiculturalism, I distinctly remember as a child walking past the one house (amongst many thousands) in the neighbourhood I grew up in that actually had a flag pole in the front garden. I still remember thinking that it was one of the oddest things I'd ever seen. I never actually saw a flag on it that I can remember although the Australian flag might have gone up occasionally. But I remember thinking: why on earth would anybody want a flagpole in their front garden? Everybody who lives here is Australian. Who would you be sending a message to? I was mystified then and I'm mystified now.

I don't think I've ever seen a flagpole in a private garden in Wollongong. You see flags at public ceremonies and at international sporting events. That seems about right to me. In case you think that Australia is not a very conservative place, we have had a conservative federal government in power for over 10 years.

BTW, I have no idea how anybody could make a link between white supremicist groups and celtic music of any style.

That's very interesting, Wombat. Americans (meaning from the USA) are very, very big on flag waving. On the major patriotic holidays, like Independence Day, the 4th of July, it's easier to count the number of houses without a flag hanging from the front porch. And many of those houses have two flags displayed; the American stars and stripes and the Irish green, white and orange tricolor. After the holiday they take down the stars and stripes but the Irish flag stays up until it shreds into pieces. We don't do either. Between my Italian-Swiss-English wife and I we figure we don't have a big enough porch.
Mike

[The Weekenders]

[What's the alternative as you see it, Weeks? Diversity is a fact of life and the 20th century shows that we haven't found a civilised way of handling it. By civilised I mean a way of living with diversity that doesn't involve people coping with diversity simply by adopting a them-and-us attitude. In an increasingly globablised world, I don't see multiculturalism as some sort of liberal luxury but as the only currently available option which directly addresses this unavoidable fact of life; either we find ways of getting along or we are doomed. .

That's just it Wombly. Through the unofficial law of unintended consequences, they are being taught to view the world through multi-racial filters and the easiest way to do so is to create ethnic stereotypes, enhanced by cultural programs that emphasize THE COUNTRY THEY WERE FROM, not the place they are now. I believe that this leads to desires for "pure" blood and identity.

As I tried to point out before, this leaves multi-racial kids in the dust. I have read personal accounts of a Mexican and African-American mixed kid at Berkeley who was shunned by both groups. It was heart-breaking.

I will take the chances of an eyes open wide exposure to American history, with minimal bi-lingualism, that emphasizes the constitutional culture of the U.S. Despite the British overlay, there is no official ethnic culture of the United States. We sing to the flag, not to the Queen.

And its a lonely place for many. I have given my bilious rant elsewhere that the culture leaves some longing for an ethnic identity and my opinion is that I would infinitely prefer to be a hybrid American than to adopt customs of an old World country, including the prejudices etc etc.

I believe that the new thinking is causing a return to the old thinking it seeks to replace, by emphasizing the VALUE of the other immigrant cultures and languages and implying that its better that they be retained, reinforced and celebrated. And I disagree. With the exception of American Indian languages, I can see no justification to teach in any other language than English in the U.S.

To the theorists, and I have heard this first-hand, the U.S. is no longer a melting pot, because "bad things happen when people lose their cultural identities." Instead, we are a salad bowl, where each group retains its identity but co-exists. This basically denies the evolutionary process of coming to America and changing into a new type of citizen, including constitutional responsibilities. This is the basic idea, and I think its what I call "dark spot" thinking, because when the evidence appears that it doesn't work, the idealogues keep pushing for it.

I know that this flies in the face of cultural relativism, but if you want a weak society, vulnerable to tyranny as well as segmented advertising, divide and conquer! And, by emphasizing bilinguialism, you are limiting the exposure to the English language, leading to a smaller vocabulary and in my way of thinking, a smaller capacity to learn from the vast repertoire of English-language information sources.

At the risk of invoking the jingoism and nationalistic thinking that the intelligentsia shuns, I would rather see the American flag around here than Mexico, India, or anywhere else. Not because it reflects my basic ethnic identity (since a part of my background includes people from New Spain, before it was Mexico), but because it represents the best hope out of patterns of tyranny from other failed systems, no matter how flawed the U.S. can be or has been.

[I.D.10-t]

BTW, I have no idea how anybody could make a link between white supremicist groups and celtic music of any style.

From what I know of supremacist groups (not much I never was invited to their meetings) is that for recruiting they like to find young, groups that are outside of the “normal” realm and “be their for them” as they grow they plant seeds of information. You could question what the Skin heads fundamentalist Christians and Satanists have to do with supremacist groups. I just think that they see it as a recruit rich environment. Mostly looking for that young man that seems to be looking for an identity.

THE COUNTRY THEY WERE FROM, not the place they are now. I believe that this leads to desires for "pure" blood and identity.

I'm a proud Mutt! (Mostly human)

[The Weekenders]

BTW, I have no idea how anybody could make a link between white supremicist groups and celtic music of any style.

From what I know of supremacist groups (not much I never was invited to their meetings) is that for recruiting they like to find young, groups that are outside of the “normal” realm and “be their for them” as they grow they plant seeds of information. You could question what the Skin heads fundamentalist Christians and Satanists have to do with supremacist groups. I just think that they see it as a recruit rich environment. Mostly looking for that young man that seems to be looking for an identity.

that's right ID. And if you are a white kid in a school district that is constantly extolling the values of African or Mexican identities, while European cultures are considered a colonialist, embarassing alternative, I believe it weakens them to just such coercion. I am telling you, I have seen it around me. I can't believe the stuff my kid hears at school. All those words that we thought were in the past, are thrown around with a vengeance at SCHOOL.

[I.D.10-t]

With the exception of American Indian languages, I can see no justification to teach in any other language than English in the U.S.

I would add the only truly "USA" language American Sign Language.

[Wormdiet]

Consequently, there is a rise in these Aryan groups, skinhead youth, etc. and ethnic tensions in schools. I truly blame the educational system and deep thinkers for this unintended consequence of their parochial social engineering.

Re-reading this statement, it still makes about as much sense as blaming stock brokers in the WTC for 9/11.

I see a lot of where Weeks is coming from, but the link between skinheads and teaching *tolerance* and *appreciation* of different ethnicities (WHich is what most of us teachers do) seems disingenuous.

[missy]

I.D. wrote:
"I would add the only truly "USA" language American Sign Language."

Quite a number of schools here are allowing ASL to be used for a student's "foreign language" credit. Noah has had 2 years of Japanese, he's signed up for Spanish next year, but after he gets two years of that, I'm going to recommend ASL for him - he's a very visual, kinestetic learner and I think he'd do well in it.

[I.D.10-t]

I'm going to recommend ASL for him - he's a very visual, kinestetic learner and I think he'd do well in it.

If you do not already know it, I hope that you will try to learn some of it with him. It is very useful in noisy environments and talking through car windows. The only thing I didn’t like about the langue is the lack of a written langue. All of it is translated to English on paper and then back to sign. Poems are mostly an “Oral” tradition.

Quite a number of schools here are allowing ASL to be used for a student's "foreign language" credit.

I have heard that the PC name for it is "world languague".