Bush: Intelligent Design Should Be Taught

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IRTradRU?
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Post by IRTradRU? »

Bloomfield wrote:
Teri-K wrote:
TomB wrote:
I don't like the whole "activitist judge" thing. Seems to me, the entire judicial system is activist.

Tom
I agree! This whole buzz word, spin phrase of "activist judge" raises my hackles beyond belief.
You have to realize that "activist" as used by Brian and his ilk to refer to judicial decisions means "I didn't understand it" or "I don't agree with it," or (usually) both.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

"his ilk"


Ooooh!!! Yeah, how DARE I insist that judges follow the law instead of creating their own new ones.

Hilarious.
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TomB
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Post by TomB »

Nanohedron wrote:
TomB wrote:
Nanohedron wrote: I must say that I'm a bit uncomfortable seeing the inclusion of my post in your ironic delivery above. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were feeling a bit touchy all around today. I certainly hope you realise that my comment was levelled solely at I.D.10-t and with no underhanded implications for anyone else about it.

Nano: Sorry, Yeah, I guess I got a bit set-off there, but I did not think that your post made any implications towards me at all. I was just continuing with my being upset and grouchy. I'm over it now, though. Still, maybe I should just go home. I can delete my post to your's, if you'd like. I didn't mean anything else by it.

Tom
Nah. We're gettin' all warm and fuzzy now. Why spoil it? :D
:lol:
"Consult the Book of Armaments"
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Bloomfield
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Post by Bloomfield »

IRTradRU? wrote: Ooooh!!! Yeah, how DARE I insist that judges follow the law instead of creating their own new ones.
I am in a charitable mood today, and therefore will say the following: What does "common law" mean, and who makes it? How do you distinguish between "following the law" and making new law?

The answer to the first question is that judges are supposed to make law, it's (part of) their job. Before you can give me a satisfactory (that is objective) answer to the second question, you have no business going on about "creating" and "following" law.
/Bloomfield
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Post by IRTradRU? »

Ha!

Look who suddenly wants to be "objective".

I like you. You make me laugh.
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Post by s1m0n »

Bloomfield wrote:I am in a charitable mood today, and therefore will say the following: What does "common law" mean, and who makes it?
Indeed. Or even the words "precedent" and "caselaw".
And now there was no doubt that the trees were really moving - moving in and out through one another as if in a complicated country dance. ('And I suppose,' thought Lucy, 'when trees dance, it must be a very, very country dance indeed.')

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Kallisti

Post by I.D.10-t »

Nanohedron wrote:
I.D.10-t wrote:Later I found that many of the “facts” in that book were wrong.
Again, this compells me to bring up the bootstraps factor. At least you went so far as to find out that education doesn't necessarily mean accuracy of material, but then, what little I know about you has early on demonstrated that you're not given to taking things at face value. Good for you.
Wish I could take credit, refering to Shiva as a her got me in trouble with an Indian friend. The book thought that Shiva, being the creator, was a woman.

Oh and for good measure intellegent design.(wikipedia)

Of all the religions I have studied, I find that I agree mostly with the discordians.(wikipedia)

Not that I have had tome to study all of them.
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia. ... talpha.htm

Kallisti
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Post by missy »

Bloomie wrote:
"The answer to the first question is that judges are supposed to make law, it's (part of) their job"

Ah - no. A judge is supposed to enforce and uphold the law (or in the case of the SCOTUS, determine if a law is Constitutional). It is the job of the legislature, governing council, etc. to make laws. And the President (or Governor) sign the laws proposed by the legislature into effect.
Missy

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Post by Bloomfield »

IRTradRU? wrote:Ha!

Look who suddenly wants to be "objective".

I like you. You make me laugh.
I'll cut you some slack on "objective," and will take any criterion that isn't synonymous with political disagreement.
/Bloomfield
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Teri-K
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Post by Teri-K »

IRTradRU? wrote:
I don't paint the entire judiciary with that wide brush - there are some astute judges who actually make rulings based on the law... but there are many more that put their own agendas into rulings that defy existing law, there's no doubting that.
You seem to be railing against judges for doing exactly what they are supposed to do, hence Bloo's reference to "common law". That's what our legal system is and how it functions.

In fairness, you say there are rulings defying existing law. Could you cite the decisions? Seriously, I'd like to read them.
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Oh, yeah: also a mod here, not a spammer. A matter of opinion, perhaps.
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Re: Kallisti

Post by Nanohedron »

I.D.10-t wrote:Wish I could take credit, refering to Shiva as a her got me in trouble with an Indian friend. The book thought that Shiva, being the creator, was a woman.
Ouch, I.D.10-t. Shiva's the destroyer. Brahma's the creator, and Vishnu's the preserver (this all in the simplest terms). That book was way off!
I.D.10-t wrote:Not that I have had tome to study all of them.
Hope you don't mind me ribbing you about this one. It's so perfect. :lol:
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Post by TomB »

missy wrote:Bloomie wrote:
"The answer to the first question is that judges are supposed to make law, it's (part of) their job"

Ah - no. A judge is supposed to enforce and uphold the law (or in the case of the SCOTUS, determine if a law is Constitutional). It is the job of the legislature, governing council, etc. to make laws. And the President (or Governor) sign the laws proposed by the legislature into effect.
I think that the Executive Branch upholds law and the Judiciary interprets the laws passed by Congress, no? One way they do so is by setting precedent. This is done by the lower courts and when doing so, they must give their legal reasoning, or conclusions, as well. Then, of course, there are the various levels of appeals.

If they just upheld the law, why would we need them? There would be nothing for them to decide? What they do is interpret the convoluted laws passed by our legislature, thus the reason for trying to study legislative history.

all the best, Tom
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Post by s1m0n »

missy wrote:
Ah - no. A judge is supposed to enforce and uphold the law (or in the case of the SCOTUS, determine if a law is Constitutional).
You are mistaken, Missy. Judges fill in the details in every law. Congress may pas a law which says "blue dogs are illegal", but this then raises the inportant question, "what exactly is a blue dog"? It's a judge or judges who will decide.

One decision becomes precedent, which may or may not influence subsequent judicial decisions depending on the level or prestige of the court. A set of precedents beome caselaw, which is likely to be introduced in court. Judges will need excellent grounds for issuing a decision which varies substantially from caselaw. Finally, a ruling at the Supreme court level becomes binding upon all inferior courts--a brand new, judge made law.

This is the process assigned to the court everywhere; not merely in under the US constitution, although its there as well. That *is* the rule of law.

~~

Similarly, courts fill large gaps in law as well as small. The constitution demands equal treatment under the law. The terms aren't defined, deliberately so. It's courts which define and redefine those terms, providing the flexibility which permits legal codes to survive for centuries.

In this day, does "equal treatment" mean that gays should have the right to marry? If the answer is yes, the supreme court has the power to strike down all contrary law, caselaw and earlier precendent. That's their job.
Last edited by s1m0n on Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And now there was no doubt that the trees were really moving - moving in and out through one another as if in a complicated country dance. ('And I suppose,' thought Lucy, 'when trees dance, it must be a very, very country dance indeed.')

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Bloomfield
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Post by Bloomfield »

missy wrote:Bloomie wrote:
"The answer to the first question is that judges are supposed to make law, it's (part of) their job"

Ah - no. A judge is supposed to enforce and uphold the law ... It is the job of the legislature, governing council, etc. to make laws. ...
Montesquieuwould agree with you. No one in Anglo-American law in the past 200 years or so would agree with you, however.
/Bloomfield
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Re: Kallisti

Post by I.D.10-t »

Nanohedron wrote:
I.D.10-t wrote:Wish I could take credit, refering to Shiva as a her got me in trouble with an Indian friend. The book thought that Shiva, being the creator, was a woman.
Ouch, I.D.10-t. Shiva's the destroyer. Brahma's the creator, and Vishnu's the preserver (this all in the simplest terms). That book was way off!
Yep pretty much butchered the Trimurti, and none of them were female.
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Post by missy »

but the judges do not (or should not) MAKE the laws - that is the job of the legislative branch.

Of course, I tend to "disagree" with a judge being able to determine sentences, too - and would like to see uniform sentencing laws. Laws that are drafted by the legislature, signed by the governor, and upheld by the courts. Checks and balances, you know?
Missy

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