A Tolkien Poll: the Ringbearers' Fate

[peeplj]

As jsluder notes, Sam went into the West after the end of the Lord of the Rings, after raising his family and serving terms as mayor.

Actually, Gimli also went into the West with his friend Legolas, even though Gimli was never a ring-bearer.

It is noted that this was allowed because of his friendship with Legolas and with the Lady Galadriel, who was of "royal blood," being a daughter of Finarfin, and sister of Finrod Felagund of Nargothrond.

--James

[Tyler]

I always interpreted 'sailing into the West' as going to another realm of existence, whatever that may be. The Undying Lands are Tolkien's interpretation of Avalon but without any return.

That's along the lines of how I always interpreted it; I'd assumed they'd share the fate of the elves, whatever that may be.

[emmline]

Actually, Gimli also went into the West with his friend Legolas, even though Gimli was never a ring-bearer.

It is noted that this was allowed because of his friendship with Legolas and with the Lady Galadriel, who was of "royal blood," being a daughter of Finarfin, and sister of Finrod Felagund of Nargothrond.

That all smacks of an elitism approaching racism, or at least classism.
I'm disillusioned.

[Nanohedron]

Actually, Gimli also went into the West with his friend Legolas, even though Gimli was never a ring-bearer.

It is noted that this was allowed because of his friendship with Legolas and with the Lady Galadriel, who was of "royal blood," being a daughter of Finarfin, and sister of Finrod Felagund of Nargothrond.

That all smacks of an elitism approaching racism, or at least classism.
I'm disillusioned.

Hence my post about barbecues.

I can hear it now: "You couldn't understand. You're not Elvish."

[Denny]

the rolling of elvish eyes

ah...when elvish eyes are rolling...

[djm]

The Silmarilion never calls the lands to the west "heaven" or "paradise", but there is definitely a creation and a creator. The first land of the first people later become known as the "undying lands of the west" after creation gets curved into separate planes of existence. I guess the whole "undying" and "immortal" stuff applies to all equally once you get there, but its the getting there that can be tricky. Remember, too, that even the men of Numenor were only allowed half-way to the undying lands of the west, and throughout the stories, the fate of men after death is unknown to the elves, who at least knew where they would be going, as they'd been there before, most of them.

djm

[jsluder]

Actually, Gimli also went into the West with his friend Legolas, even though Gimli was never a ring-bearer.

It is noted that this was allowed because of his friendship with Legolas and with the Lady Galadriel, who was of "royal blood," being a daughter of Finarfin, and sister of Finrod Felagund of Nargothrond.

That all smacks of an elitism approaching racism, or at least classism.
I'm disillusioned.

The LOTR is full of classism. I like it in spite of that.

[peeplj]

Actually, Gimli also went into the West with his friend Legolas, even though Gimli was never a ring-bearer.

It is noted that this was allowed because of his friendship with Legolas and with the Lady Galadriel, who was of "royal blood," being a daughter of Finarfin, and sister of Finrod Felagund of Nargothrond.

That all smacks of an elitism approaching racism, or at least classism.
I'm disillusioned.

The LOTR is full of classism. I like it in spite of that.

Many things in LOTR fall into a clearly laid out alignment and function...so yeah, I suppose in a way that's classism. All Orcs are bad, for instance; there aren't any "good little Orcses" running around lamenting the ill deeds of their race. All Elves are good--at least at the time of LOTR; you could make a good argument that Feanor and his sons, while perhaps not inherently evil, nonetheless acted in an evil way on many occasions, not least of which is the Kinslaying. Maeglin also betrayed Gondolin, another example of an evil Elf.

Men (and with them Hobbits and Dwarves) are the exception. They can choose to do good--or evil. They can rise far above their initial station, or from the noblest birth fall miserably under the Shadow. They have a freedom both of choice and of movement which seems to be mostly denied the other races of Middle Earth.

So even though, in a way, the stories demonstrate a kind of classism, in another way they center on those who by fortune or fate work outside the normal delineations.

--James

[gonzo914]

...and special mithral chain mail...

May it be well that you misspelt this, as it is a peril to bring to light here on the boards.

I can only offer in my defense that I have never actually read the damn thing, and the only place I have seen it in print is in D&D, where it it is spelled 'mithral.'

The first hundred or so pages are a killer, and I've always given up and switched to something more entertaining, like "The Greatest Works of Warren G. Harding" or "The Complete History of German Philosophy."

[jsluder]

The first hundred or so pages are a killer, and I've always given up and switched to something more entertaining, like "The Greatest Works of Warren G. Harding" or "The Complete History of German Philosophy."

Gonzo is no longer my favorite Muppet.

[Nanohedron]

...and special mithral chain mail...

May it be well that you misspelt this, as it is a peril to bring to light here on the boards.

I can only offer in my defense that I have never actually read the damn thing, and the only place I have seen it in print is in D&D, where it it is spelled 'mithral.'

The first hundred or so pages are a killer, and I've always given up and switched to something more entertaining, like "The Greatest Works of Warren G. Harding" or "The Complete History of German Philosophy."

You did it again. STOP IT.

There is a troll - one must not speak his name - who arises at the smell of it. Change the "A" for an "I", and search. I must reveal no more.

[jsluder]

I must reveal no more.

Oh c'mon, just make yourself stationary in a comfy chair, take out some nice stationery, and write out the whole story...

[Nanohedron]

Argh.

[jsluder]

Argh.

Grrr. Argh.

[A-Musing]

"there's a hell of a nice universe next door. let's go!" ee cummings