Article: Americans will need passports for Canada, Mex trips

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Post by avanutria »

Montana wrote:I sure hope they're ramping up the passport offices. As I recall, they advise that you give them a couple months (which is already a little ludicris) to process your passport unless you're willing to pay more money for a rush job. If more people will be requesting passports, the time delay may increase.
I sent away my passport application in 2001, sometime in mid-late September, and I had it by Thanksgiving. I think the rush job is only 14 days but will cost you several semi-vital organs.

To make an unfair comparison, you can get a student visa same-day at a British Consulate (in the US).

I wonder how long it takes for citizens of other countries to get their passports.
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Post by DCrom »

jbarter wrote:From what I've seen on some other threads I got the impression that some of you colonials considered leaving your home state was going abroad. :D

I can still remember the amazement I felt a few years ago when watching an amercan TV show. The main character (in her mid to late thirties) had left her home somewhere in the mid-states and moved to California. The first thing she did was to go look at the sea because she'd never seen it before in her life. Believe me, living on our little island that is really hard to get your head round.
In terms of distance traveled, for residents of most states (excepting New England, where the scale more nearly matches the European model) leaving your home state IS like going abroad.

There are counties in some of the western states larger than some of the smaller European countries.

On the other hand, in most of the US, structures built 100 years ago are old, while structures 200 years old are ANCIENT. This is more noticable the further west you go, but even in the original 13 colonies older-but-still-in-use buildings are rarer than seems to be the case in Europe.

My immediate family isn't much affected by the change - I travel on business and my wife's family is in Hong Kong. Even when they weren't required, we used our passports when visiting Mexico and Canada just because they *did* seem to speed things up for us.

But I'd bet good money that my youngest brother and his family have never had passports (as far as I know, my brother hasn't been out of the US since a family visit to Canada when he was about 4). I'd guess that, on average, people in the US are both more and less travelled than Europeans - more, in that I seem to recall reading that statistically Americans move more times, and further, during their lifetime than Europeans do. And less, in that for most Americans, foreign travel, even to "nearby" countries like Canada and Mexico, requires much more time and money than it does for Europeans; though a trip from Kansas to Florida or California is further than a trip from London to Rome or Istanbul, it still isn't "foreign travel."

Overall, better border security is a good idea - though it's possible to debate causes and and justifications, we (as a country) do have enemies who have vowed to destroy us.

I *do* wonder why they aren't doing something about the ~1 million who cross the US-Mexico border illegally each year, though. Until that's dealt with, requiring passports at the legal border crossing points reminds me of the tollbooth-on-the-open-range scene in _Blazing Saddles_.
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Post by IRTradRU? »

DCrom wrote:I *do* wonder why they aren't doing something about the ~1 million who cross the US-Mexico border illegally each year, though. Until that's dealt with, requiring passports at the legal border crossing points reminds me of the tollbooth-on-the-open-range scene in _Blazing Saddles_.

:lol:

You've got that right!

Great analogy!
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Post by Walden »

jbarter wrote:From what I've seen on some other threads I got the impression that some of you colonials considered leaving your home state was going abroad. :D
Have to go overseas to get to the state of Hawaii.
I can still remember the amazement I felt a few years ago when watching an amercan TV show. The main character (in her mid to late thirties) had left her home somewhere in the mid-states and moved to California. The first thing she did was to go look at the sea because she'd never seen it before in her life. Believe me, living on our little island that is really hard to get your head round.
First time I ever saw the ocean was in Hawaii, when we went to take the Pearl Harbor boat tour, on our way to the Philippines. When I lived in Mindanao, I recall taking a grown person (a native of said island) to see the ocean for the first time.
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Post by OnTheMoor »

jbarter wrote:From what I've seen on some other threads I got the impression that some of you colonials considered leaving your home state was going abroad. :D

I can still remember the amazement I felt a few years ago when watching an amercan TV show. The main character (in her mid to late thirties) had left her home somewhere in the mid-states and moved to California. The first thing she did was to go look at the sea because she'd never seen it before in her life. Believe me, living on our little island that is really hard to get your head round.
You're ones to talk! The English are horrible for that in my experience. I remember asking a friend from Glasgow what Edinburgh was like. He looked at me like a just pissed on his shoe.

How are the American border towns feeling about this? They must get a pretty big chunk of business from Canadians who live on the other side of the line, and I can't see people waiting 5 hours in line for a passport just so they can keep on taking advantage of cheaper goods.
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Post by djm »

Just for clarification, this will be a phased-in plan over three years. An article in the Globe says this is due to the large number of people crossing the border - something like 200 million x-border trips every year between Canada-US alone. Also, they are looking at something higher tech than a passport that may actually speed up processing at the border. Gee, I feel safer already! :D

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Post by brianormond »

-I hail from Michigan like Charlene and made frequent trips to the Windsor, Sarnia and Bayfield/Goderich areas of Ontario province as a kid -mostly to visit grandparents. Border formalities centered on presenting the dog's rabies certificate and letting Customs pet the dog.

-Dad was grilled at length returning to Detroit with a huge reel-to-reel tape recorder in 1960, as they were rarities then and anti-communist hysteria was in full bloom. They gave him a hard seat in a sterile little room and played good cop/bad cop with him just like on TV. Dad's vanilla life details
gave them little to go on, and he was grudgingly allowed to bring the suspect device across the border.-Not quite HUAC, but it shows the tenor of the time.
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Post by cowtime »

I don't have a passport. Never have had one. In fact, my daughter, who incidentally went to Bannf in Dec.. is one of the few folks I know who does have one.

The passport deal is kinda like the gun laws. Another hoop for the honest folk to jump through. The bad folk are not gonna really be bothered....

It's just another pathetic , political attempt to seemingly strengthen our borders without really doing anything to put off any voting block, otherwise known as "covering your butt."(to put it nicely)
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Post by jbarter »

OnTheMoor wrote:The English are horrible for that in my experience. I remember asking a friend from Glasgow what Edinburgh was like.
Oh dear, I think you may have just upset an awful lot of Scots. :lol:
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Post by I.D.10-t »

DCrom wrote: we (as a country) do have enemies who have vowed to destroy us.
....and we have vowed to kill them.
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Post by Redwolf »

It only takes six weeks (often less) to get a passport...and that's without expedition. If you pay the expedition fee, you get it within two weeks.

Most cities of any size also have multiple passport offices. If you have your paperwork in order and have your photos already, the wait to apply shouldn't be all that long. Once you actually HAVE a passport, it's even easier...they only need to be replaced once every 10 years, and you can do it by mail.

You'd be surprised, even in border states, how infrequently people tend to cross, unless they live right on the border. I grew up in Washington state, and didn't visit Canada until I was 19...my family tended to go to California or Montana on vacation. Now I live in California, and I have never driven across the border to Mexico...in fact, the one and only time I was ever in Mexico was this past November, when we went on a cruise!

We did get a lot of Canadians down when I lived in Spokane, but that was mainly because lower prices combined with the ability to avoid paying sales tax for folks from Alberta (because they didn't have sales tax in their province, a non-resident permit was available to them in Washington) made shopping there attractive (the fact that most motels and some restaurants in Spokane accepted Canadian money at par didn't hurt either). I doubt that will change if the U.S. starts requiring passports to cross the border...it will still be worth their while to get the passports and keep shopping.

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Post by ChaoticGemini »

Redwolf wrote: Once you actually HAVE a passport, it's even easier...they only need to be replaced once every 10 years, and you can do it by mail.
When did it go to 10 years? My last two passports were good for only 4 years. They are long since expired though.

Unlike the other MI posters, I've never crossed the Canadian border by Detroit, but I have crossed through the UP and by boat across Lake Huron. One time, about 8 years ago, when a group of us were going to a concert I couldn't find my drivers license and just grabbed the passport from the filing cabinet. The boarder patrol actually looked at me closer handing them a passport instead of a driver's license.

When I first heard this story, I wondered how they're going to control boat travel between US and Canada. My family goes over by boat once every summer and we never see any boarder patrol.

I also wonder what would have happened if this law was in place when my Uncle got lost in the fog on Lake Huron and ended up in Canada and had to call family to bring the trailer because his boat motor wasn't working right to make it back by water. Does that mean he would be stuck in Canada forever?
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Post by Redwolf »

ChaoticGemini wrote:
Redwolf wrote: Once you actually HAVE a passport, it's even easier...they only need to be replaced once every 10 years, and you can do it by mail.
When did it go to 10 years? My last two passports were good for only 4 years. They are long since expired though.

Unlike the other MI posters, I've never crossed the Canadian border by Detroit, but I have crossed through the UP and by boat across Lake Huron. One time, about 8 years ago, when a group of us were going to a concert I couldn't find my drivers license and just grabbed the passport from the filing cabinet. The boarder patrol actually looked at me closer handing them a passport instead of a driver's license.

When I first heard this story, I wondered how they're going to control boat travel between US and Canada. My family goes over by boat once every summer and we never see any boarder patrol.

I also wonder what would have happened if this law was in place when my Uncle got lost in the fog on Lake Huron and ended up in Canada and had to call family to bring the trailer because his boat motor wasn't working right to make it back by water. Does that mean he would be stuck in Canada forever?
Quite some time ago. My old passport, which was issued in 1985, expired in 1995.

Passports for minors have to be renewed more frequently...every five years. I guess they figure that children change more over 10 years than adults do, which is certainly true!

As far as boat travel goes, don't you have to go through customs and immigration when you land? That's normally the case. Traveling by boat up Puget Sound from Washington to Victoria, you have to clear immigration and customs both when you land in BC and when you land back in the U.S. When you travel to Mexico via cruise ship, you have to go through the whole thing as well upon your return.

There are already procedures in place for handling people who end up on the "wrong" side of the border inadvertantly.

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Post by Doug_Tipple »

Like others have said, growing up near the center of a large country like the United States, you can do a lot of travelling and never leave the country. However, attending college close to the Mexican border, I frequently drove my car to the beaches on the Gulf of California in Mexico, needing only a temporary visa and an occassional bribe.

I have a passport, but only because I allowed a sweet-talking woman convince me that I needed to travel with her to visit her relatives in Israel along with a sightseeing trip to Jordan. I am not big fan of travelling in an airplane going anywhere, but I would like to see another customs stamp in my passport before it expires in three years. Ireland is my choice, if only I could drive my car.
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Post by ErikT »

On the topic, it bothers me, too. I think it's rediculous.

On the off topic, regarding distances... I flew 300 miles one way last night to go to the next nearest session. It was great! Boarded the plan at 6:30, got to the session by 8:00 and was back here by 9:00 this morning. The same amount of time that I spent in the plane could have been used by someone in Germany to attend a session in Ireland.

In a similar vein, I had a number of European friends that would comment on my lack of language skills (I only speak Spanish - and then not too well) and I would explain that when you live in a country where you can drive for 8 days and barely even change dialects of the same language, there isn't a whole lot of need. Whereas many of my friends would drive 3 hours every summer to vacation in France... so guess what, they learned French. It's just a different social dynamic that I don't believe makes one group better than the other, but it does make us different.

Erik
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