what happened to samhain?

flanum · Post by **flanum** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:14 pm

Ah well, forget about scary avatars and stuff! I take it back.
Halloween isnt really about "psycho","Amityville horror"etc, its really about the tradition of celebrating the end of harvesting, when it gets a wee bit blurry between the far side and this side. Just remembered today, some uh i dont know some mad deeper thing reminded me of previuos "halloweens"!
Its about going up to Loughcrew,Shantemon,Nowth or Dowth with a group of friends, maybe a couple of instruments, headin up to the Cairns, maybe sampling some of the local seasonal fungi along the way!

,and lighting a big fire and just losing yourself for the night in a long forgotten emotion,about remembering the seasons, and not being afraid of the dark!
Dont get me wrong, i understand where halloween got its imagery from... broomsticks, magic potion, bats..etc, Its just that i think its nice from time to time to try and remember stuff thats rooted in your genes but has benn forgotten in the modern era!

Anyway thought id get that off me chest. This time tomorrow night i will have changed my mind and will probably end up in some strobe-lit daft party unable to spell me own name !

P.S. Actually come to think of it, id love to see "Young Frankenstein" again tonight!

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:31 pm

Savain isn't Christian, so few people celebrate it, as compared to Halloween, although, to be honest, I don't see how Halloween is supposed to be more Christian. Is there a patron saint of pumpkins who was born or died on October 30th, perhaps?

aderyn_du · Post by **aderyn_du** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:32 pm

Some of us still observe Samhain.

flanum · Post by **flanum** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:36 pm

I think (here anywy) that it was stolen by christianity somewhere around the time that St.Patrick set fire to his rubbish! I think it was turned into "all souls" day or something.

Hmmm Psylocibes!!

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:36 pm

aderyn_du wrote:Some of us still observe Samhain.

I know. It's all the same in my view, anyway. It's sort of like Halloween was "planted" over top of Samhain and a lot of new ritual/belief was added or taken away, and they gave it a new name.

The same, in general, is also true for Christmas, Easter, and most all the other "Christian" holidays--they have non-Christian histories.

I know I probably sound like I'm coming straight from the Church Of God International or one of those wacky groups that is extremely adverse to celebrating holidays at all times, but I'm really not! I'm not that adamant, at least...

aderyn_du · Post by **aderyn_du** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:39 pm

Cranberry wrote:
aderyn_du wrote:Some of us still observe Samhain.
I know. It's all the same in my view, anyway. It's sort of like Halloween was "planted" over top of Samhain and a lot of new ritual/belief was added or taken away, and they gave it a new name.

The same, in general, is also true for Christmas, Easter, and most all the other "Christian" holidays.

I know I probably sound like I'm coming straight from the Church Of God International or one of those wacky groups that is extremely adverse to celebrating holidays, but I'm really not!

Oh, Cran... my comment wasn't meant to be in response your post necessarily. I was responding more to flanum's thread title.

But I do agree with your "planting" theory, actually.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:40 pm

aderyn_du wrote:
Cranberry wrote:
aderyn_du wrote:Some of us still observe Samhain.
I know. It's all the same in my view, anyway. It's sort of like Halloween was "planted" over top of Samhain and a lot of new ritual/belief was added or taken away, and they gave it a new name.

The same, in general, is also true for Christmas, Easter, and most all the other "Christian" holidays.

I know I probably sound like I'm coming straight from the Church Of God International or one of those wacky groups that is extremely adverse to celebrating holidays, but I'm really not!
Oh, Cran... my comment wasn't meant to be in response your post necessarily. I was responding more to flanum's thread title. But I do agree with your "planting" theory, actually.

Fiona Apple has a song which says "and if you're right, you'll agree" so you must be right!

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:45 pm

Cranberry wrote:Savain isn't Christian, so few people celebrate it, as compared to Halloween, although, to be honest, I don't see how Halloween is supposed to be more Christian. Is there a patron saint of pumpkins who was born or died on October 30th, perhaps?

It's spelled "Samhain" (and pronounced "SOW-in," where the "ow" rhymes with what you say when you stub your toe). And it's on November 1 (and, actually, it's the Irish name for the entire month of November). In the Christian calendar, it became All Saints Day (All Souls Day is on Nov. 2). What we call Halloween ("All Hallow's Even", i.e., the night before the feasts of the hallowed dead) is "Oíche Shamhna" (pro. EE-hyeh HOW-nuh).

The idea of commemorating our beloved dead didn't really change much when Pádraig brought Christianity to Ireland. In fact, many cultures do it. Our local cathedral, in conjunction with a largely Mexican congregation, is setting up a commemoration altar for Dia de los Muertos, which will be there when we sing the Fauré Requiem in observance of All Souls Day this Wednesday.

Redwolf

cowtime · Post by **cowtime** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:56 pm

flanum wrote:Ah well, forget about scary avatars and stuff! I take it back.
Halloween isnt really about "psycho","Amityville horror"etc, its really about the tradition of celebrating the end of harvesting, when it gets a wee bit blurry between the far side and this side. Just remembered today, some uh i dont know some mad deeper thing reminded me of previuos "halloweens"!
Its about going up to Loughcrew,Shantemon,Nowth or Dowth with a group of friends, maybe a couple of instruments, headin up to the Cairns, maybe sampling some of the local seasonal fungi along the way!
,and lighting a big fire and just losing yourself for the night in a long forgotten emotion,about remembering the seasons, and not being afraid of the dark!
Dont get me wrong, i understand where halloween got its imagery from... broomsticks, magic potion, bats..etc, Its just that i think its nice from time to time to try and remember stuff thats rooted in your genes but has benn forgotten in the modern era!

Anyway thought id get that off me chest. This time tomorrow night i will have changed my mind and will probably end up in some strobe-lit daft party unable to spell me own name !

P.S. Actually come to think of it, id love to see "Young Frankenstein" again tonight!

When I was a kid, out in the country in the mountains, we celebrated Halloween by going way up a "holler", building a big fire, playing some tunes, etc. just as you describe. Perhaps it's in the genes afterall. Oh, there was one other thing we always did- cut down as many trees across the road as possible in strategic spots. The bus could NEVER get through to take us to school the day after Halloween.

Lambchop · Post by **Lambchop** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:05 pm

Cranberry wrote:Savain isn't Christian, so few people celebrate it, as compared to Halloween, although, to be honest, I don't see how Halloween is supposed to be more Christian. Is there a patron saint of pumpkins who was born or died on October 30th, perhaps?

Well, perhaps you could look it up and find out? Then share what you find?

______________________________________
Professor Lambchop

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:17 pm

I've heard it pronounced with a "v" sound, before (probably from my German friend(s) though I'm not certain), and relatively positive that I've seen it spelled Savain. I couldn't tell you where, though.

Lambchop · Post by **Lambchop** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:18 pm

Cranberry wrote:I've heard it pronounced with a "v" sound, before (probably from my German friend(s) though I'm not certain), and relatively positive that I've seen it spelled Savain. I couldn't tell you where, though.

That's something else you could look up.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:23 pm

Lambchop wrote:
Cranberry wrote:I've heard it pronounced with a "v" sound, before (probably from my German friend(s) though I'm not certain), and relatively positive that I've seen it spelled Savain. I couldn't tell you where, though.
That's something else you could look up.

Isn't the point of having a forum, and especially an off-topic forum discussion? If everybody looked everything up all the time, there would be little discussion and then the Pub would close down.

On second thought--don't answer that.

Look it up!

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:31 pm

cowtime wrote:Oh, there was one other thing we always did- cut down as many trees across the road as possible in strategic spots. The bus could NEVER get through to take us to school the day after Halloween.

I should have done that!

I tried in vain to get let off from High School on All Saints' Day.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:49 pm

Cranberry wrote:I've heard it pronounced with a "v" sound, before (probably from my German friend(s) though I'm not certain), and relatively positive that I've seen it spelled Savain. I couldn't tell you where, though.

Sorry, but it's wrong. I've heard some people pronounce it that way too, but they're almost always people with no knowledge of Irish whatsoever who picked up the pronunciation from some novel.

Redwolf

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what happened to samhain?

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